Driveshaft intermediate bearing

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Thu 21.09.2017, 16:47

I'm guessing that you check for play/slack in it. My new one has a tiny bit (and I think that's normal).I'm not sure at which point it becomes too much!

I hope to take one off the weekend after this, or maybe this weekend if, coincidentally, the new driveshaft for my van doesn't arrive (that's the outer joint and obviously bad).
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Simon_P » Thu 21.09.2017, 17:17

Giniw wrote:Newbie question, but... How does one determine a tripod or a tulip is worn and has to be changed?

A surprisingly advanced question since inner joints don't often fail and it is difficult to tell until it becomes obvious.
A clonk on pick-up and or a *3rd order vibration under load could be symptoms - Driving round in tight circles won't tell you much for an inner joint.

Axial play would also indicate wear, but since our cars have quite a lot of play anyway it is difficult to tell. There is lots of play in all directions on an elan shaft a lot of it comes from the intermediate shaft bearing which I would always replace because it is cheap and easy and wears early.

Split Gaiter/boot - Grease is what stops them wearing out. So if any of the grease gets out or dirt gets in it will cause wear.

Milage - Milage is a good indicator of wear. Analysis showed that CV joints were usually good for 150 to 200k miles of course it depends on the application, but a good potential failure warning is a replaced boot for the reasons above.

Edit * 3rd order = 3 x wheel rotation
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Giniw » Thu 21.09.2017, 20:19

Thanks!

Simon_P wrote:A clonk on pick-up and or a *3rd order vibration under load could be symptoms
Indeed I have such a symptom (around 60mph)

Axial play would also indicate wear, but since our cars have quite a lot of play anyway it is difficult to tell. There is lots of play in all directions on an elan shaft a lot of it comes from the intermediate shaft bearing which I would always replace because it is cheap and easy and wears early.
That's what bugs me, I checked my other cars and I would say the plays are similar, nothing obvious. As for the axial play, isn't the tripod moving freely in the tulip anyway?
As for the intermediate shaft bearing, so far I would say it's my main suspect. Would you say the video I posted at viewtopic.php?f=48&t=26163#p333629 seems normal?

Split Gaiter/boot - Grease is what stops them wearing out. So if any of the grease gets out or dirt gets in it will cause wear.
I have replaced the boots a couple of years ago, they are still like new.

Milage
Should not be a concern since my car is only around 50k miles.


Bern wrote:I'm guessing that you check for play/slack in it. My new one has a tiny bit (and I think that's normal).I'm not sure at which point it becomes too much.
Yes that is my main concern, it would be interesting if you can compare the old and the new one to tell if there is anything obvious ^^
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Simon_P » Fri 22.09.2017, 23:39

Sorry my error thought one thing wrote another - should have said radial play ie rotational. (rather than Axial)

Check that the bearing housing bolts are tight.
Also check that the shaft and inner joints are properly engaged on their circlips - push-pull to check.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sat 30.09.2017, 16:33

Surprisingly, all the nuts, bolts and ball joints from the front suspension came undone.

But I can't get the driveshaft off! I know there's a snap ring on there but I just can't get past it!

I've made a tool which is a bar with a lip and some box section steel welded to it for hitting with a hammer. This hooks over the end of the shaft. No luck.

I've also tried a crowbar against the diff body (against a piece of wood to spread the load), but still no luck, and I wasn't really sure if that was a sensible idea.

Any ideas? It's the left hand side, btw.

Cheers,

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 30.09.2017, 17:16

Unless you put even pressure simultaneously on both sides of the joint, the side opposite to your lever will "dig in" and lock the shaft.

I use a tool that is usually called an "Axle Popper". It is like a ball joint tuning fork in concept but larger for the drive shaft parts.

I got mine from Amazon several years ago and it was around $35.00 for the 2 piece kit. The extra, not tapered piece is a "shim" to take up some excess space if the fork isn't thick enough to touch both sides of the gap.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sat 30.09.2017, 19:10

That looks perfect, thanks :-)

Sadly neither Amazon UK or ebay UK has them listed (well Amazon has them but with £30 delivery I guess it's not UK sourced). Maybe they are called something else over here?

I get what you mean about digging in though, maybe I can devise something that'll work......

Thanks again.

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby dapinky » Sat 30.09.2017, 19:34

Bern,

You should be able to do it with 2 levers, opposite each other - that's how I've always managed.

Failing that, a suitable tool (like John pictured) could be made up using a piece of steel (or alluminium) plate with a cut-out section.

5 minutes with an angle grinder and you're good to go.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sat 30.09.2017, 19:39

Dave,

Funnily enough, I was thinking about 2 levers or making something out of steel. I don't have any sheet, but was thinking of making a U shape out of angle iron.

Cheers,

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Simon_P » Sat 30.09.2017, 20:19

When you are levering mind the oil seal it is proud of the housing and easily bent.

Try a slide hammer if you have one.

Also helps if you have someone gently pulling the driveshaft straight out to take up the slack.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sat 30.09.2017, 21:26

I can't find my slide hammer, I'll have another look tomorrow.

I haven't seen it yet, but I think I may have to order a new oil seal, probably a good idea to replace it anyway.

Cheers,

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby dapinky » Sun 01.10.2017, 13:08

back at the beginning of this thread dapinky wrote:(but I would also advise that you consider replacing the oil seals in the gearbox output/driveshaft joint whilst you're there - only a few quid and it would be anoying to incur a leak without swapping it whilst you have the chance).


:wink:
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sun 01.10.2017, 14:12

Haha, cheers Dave, I should've heeded your advice ;-)

The driveshaft is now out :-)

The oil seal is squashed :-(

Comparing the new shaft one with the old one I can't see any difference in play anywhere.

When this one is back on I'll move on to the other side and see what that one is like.

Thanks all for your help (so far).
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Sun 08.10.2017, 20:49

An update:

I've replaced the left hand driveshaft and I've removed the right hand driveshaft along with the intermediate shaft.

The right hand shaft has as much play in it as the old left hand shaft (which has as much play as the new left hand shaft).

So luckily that seems good. Even better news is that there is play in the intermediate bearing, and I'm hoping that this is the cause of the issue (and it seems likely).

I just need to get it off and get the new one on. My puller wasn't big enough, so I've ordered a new one.

And I'll clean, re-grease and fit new boots to the driveshaft before I refit it.

Cheers,

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Simon_P » Sun 08.10.2017, 21:57

Bern,

Mind the dust shield on the link shaft - not a part that you can buy.

The bearing is retained by a circlip.

Take the rubber seals out carefully unless you have new ones to hand - They are an uncommon size.

Unless the boots are damaged you are better leaving well and enough alone, besides there will be no positive effect of changing them.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Mon 09.10.2017, 20:08

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the reply.

I thought it would be a good idea while I had the shaft off to replace the grease in the joints. As I had taken the boots off I thought I'd just as well put new ones on.

The inside of the oil seal is quite worn, I guess from where there was movement in the shaft. I've ordered one that I think might be a bit big, though correct internal diameter.

The dust shield is fine :-)

I haven't noticed a circlip for the bearing, I was going to just pull it off! I'll take a look now, maybe a post a picture.

Cheers,

Bern.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Mon 09.10.2017, 20:31

DSC_0810.JPG


Should there be a clip between the bearing and the splines?

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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Giniw » Mon 09.10.2017, 20:54

As for the oil seal you are talking about the one in the gearbox?
Anyway, thanks for the follow up, I will do that in a few weeks probably ^^
Where did you order your intermediate shaft bearing? From a local store?
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Bern » Mon 09.10.2017, 21:07

Hi Giniw,

No, I've done the gearbox oil seals, i got those from SJ Sporstcars.

In the second picture there was an oil seal, the picture was taken after I had removed it, you couldn't see the bearing.

I bought the bearing from eBay. I won't post a link until I'm sure it's the right one!

The play I have in mine was very similar to how yours looked int he video you posted so perhaps yours is the bearing as well. I hope to get it all back together this week, I'll let you know how that goes.

Incidentally, I changed the oil filter whilst the drievshaft was off, it looked to be much easier to get too without the shaft on!

Cheers,

Bern.
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Re: Driveshaft intermediate bearing

Postby Giniw » Mon 09.10.2017, 21:22

OK thank you very much, it's more a bearing seal than an oil seal then?
As for the bearing itself I know there is a reference in the wikilec, I am just a bit suspicious on the quality I might get for that reference from one ordered online from an unknown source. But maybe I am paranoid :-D
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