ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Nickydee » Fri 06.01.2017, 16:06

surfboardfiller wrote:It is indeed a can of worms.
It looks like there is no actual legislation making it 'illegal' just a lot of peoples opinion implying it is illegal without being able to substantiate it.

The concern seems to be aimed at cars with monocoque chassis that are 'repaired' but these should not be Cat C/D but Cat B.

The plain and obvious fact is that a car can be crashed and not categorised as 'un economic repair' but be in the same condition of a car that can be repaired economically, as its based on the pre crash value minus the quote for repairing it. Its a category of economy not safety.

Cat C/D is a marker put on the car when it was damaged which is technically irrelevant after a repair.

If the car was damaged beyond safety it would be a Cat B which is illegal to sell as a road going vehicle because it is not legally permitted to go back on the road and should not be issued with a V5c by our friends at the DVLA.

I am drawing closer to the conclusion that it isn't illegal despite the fireworks.



Phil think you are right on every front. My understanding and its with some caution as i usually bow to Dave Pink in such matters is that if a dealer does not declare a car is a CAT D or C in an advert than that would fraudulent with the defence of not knowing would not wash as he would be expected to do a HPI check. The end result is either fraudulent or negligent with the same liability. In respect of a private seller then there no need for them to declare the car is a CAT C?D but they would have a duty to answer any question put by a potential purchaser truthfully.

Turning to the question of whether to purchase a CAT C or CAT D each to your own but Rambos comments are inaccurate and way off the mark.

According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), Category D write-offs are “repairable total-loss vehicles where repair costs including VAT do not exceed the vehicle's pre-accident value”. Cat C cars are those where the “repair costs including VAT exceed the vehicle's pre-accident value”.

As Phil says cars that cannot repaired safely do not fall into these categories. Also bear in mind that the repair cost will include items such as car hire etc. Composite bodied cars especially older ones i.e those with large expensive panels for example lotus style clams are often written off due the high cost or the unavailability of new replacement body panels.

Furthermore the scarcity of parts means that the salvage value of damaged cars is relatively high which is a factor.

For example a VX220 worth £7,000 pre crash with front clam light and head light damage and costing £4,000 to repair with a salvage value of £5,500 would be written off.(CAT D). A lotus Elise of the same age worth £12,000, with the same damage costing the same to repair with a salvage value of say £6,500 would be repaired.

When my Elan was rear ended, I managed to have it sent to specialist repairer with an Elan owning proprietor who helped out by keeping his cost to a minimum and advising not to take the hire car as this would lead to my car being written off. He was also prepared to use a secondhand rear light unit to keep cost down - well a bit!! So my car was repaired is not CAT D but had I chosen a hire car then it would have been a CAT D and even if repaired by the same guy would be considered by some as dangerous and untouchable.

As it only a question of economics I would be personally consider a correctly priced 10 year old well documented Cat D car , but would never buy say a CAT D 2 -5 year old Porsche Boxster with a value of over £20K, or indeed any modern expensive monocoque or even a modern lotus as if it is not economic to repair the damage must have been very extensive.
Last edited by Nickydee on Fri 06.01.2017, 19:44, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby theelanman » Fri 06.01.2017, 16:34

Nickydee wrote:According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI),
Category D write-offs are “repairable total-loss vehicles where repair costs including VAT do not exceed the vehicle's pre-accident value”.
Cat C cars are those where the “repair costs including VAT exceed the vehicle's pre-accident value”.


just a question, I'm confused (easily done I know)......isn't that the same thing?.......or have I missed something?
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby theelanman » Fri 06.01.2017, 16:37

or are these the magic words....

repairable total-loss vehicles

just then sounds like cat C isn't repairable......but we know this isn't true as many cat C cars are put back on the road....
Cat B and A are the scrappers.........
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Nickydee » Fri 06.01.2017, 17:25

I think the point is all these cars are repairable but its not economic for the insurance co to do so. Logically so is every damaged vehicle CAT A and B but I assume that CAT A and B are scrapped as the damage is so extensive that the risk of ringing a stolen car or bodging repairs perhaps cut and shunt are much higher.

In the nutshell these classifications are based on the cost of repair related to the market value of a particular car rather than whether it is safe to repair or the overall cost of the repairs. A 5 year old Audi with 160,000 miles on the clock will cost the same to repair than an identical car 6 months old with 5k on the clock, but the market value of 5 year old car will mean its written off. If both are repaired by an approved bodyshop than both are equally safe and only one would have a CAT D status.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby clemo » Wed 08.02.2017, 22:04

And now for something completely different

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... 90/6807681
Jim Clark S2 on the way . The one with the Yellow spoke wheels .
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Saltire » Wed 08.02.2017, 22:13

clemo wrote:And now for something completely different


Different . . . Is right :D

Better . . . Is definitely not :evil:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rice crispy » Wed 08.02.2017, 22:51

I like the main colour but the rest :shock:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Dave Eds » Wed 08.02.2017, 23:18

Love the colour.

Watch this space..........
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby tb10 » Wed 08.02.2017, 23:28

There's a thread on this car on the forum somewhere....................
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 09.02.2017, 02:22

Dave Eds wrote:Love the colour.


Thought you didn't like orange ... :lol:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Dave Eds » Thu 09.02.2017, 08:06

Wrong - I just dont like orange wheels :smt078
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 09.02.2017, 10:50

tb10 wrote:There's a thread on this car on the forum somewhere....................


I think it was in relation to those ghastly side exhausts ???
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Rambo » Thu 09.02.2017, 10:50

Dave Eds wrote:Wrong - I just dont like orange wheels :smt078


That spew from the Smiley is the same colour as Phil's wheels :lol:

PS I quite like the orange wheels with the blue of the car :shock:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby lotusflasherman » Thu 09.02.2017, 17:24

Rambo wrote:That spew from the Smiley is the same colour as Phil's wheels :lol:


Nah, that spew looks more like Norfolk Mustard, my wheels are 'proper orange'.. :lol:

Agree about the ghastly side exhausts - ugly and so wrong aerodynamically. Front rubber spoiler lip creates low pressure under car and waisted lower doors help keep it there... but those exhausts are going to cock that up! :banghead:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby simonbuk » Fri 10.02.2017, 00:43

Beautiful colour and like the LED lights - very neat.
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby tb10 » Fri 10.02.2017, 01:33

I knew I'd seen it on the forum before:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=24255&hilit=orange

regards

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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Saltire » Fri 10.02.2017, 08:17

simonbuk wrote:. . . like the LED lights - very neat.

:agree:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby clemo » Sat 04.03.2017, 23:57

Black S2 73k POA ? Emailed for details .
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... -n/6910363

Early S2 . Palacio purple 58k £9000
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... 94/6908710
Jim Clark S2 on the way . The one with the Yellow spoke wheels .
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby lotusflasherman » Sun 05.03.2017, 01:48

clemo wrote:Black S2 73k POA ? Emailed for details .
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... -n/6910363

Early S2 . Palacio purple 58k £9000
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... 94/6908710



Palacio Elan shown in photos as B7 OMB not coming up on the Govt Check MOT database. Probably already transferred to another car ?
It's in Suffolk and says "Maintained throughout by specialist Elan M100 engineer"... wonder who that would be ? :lol:
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Re: ALL ELANS ON PISTONHEADS.

Postby Kathryn » Sun 05.03.2017, 02:03

lotusflasherman wrote:
clemo wrote:Black S2 73k POA ? Emailed for details .
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... -n/6910363

Early S2 . Palacio purple 58k £9000
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... 94/6908710



Palacio Elan shown in photos as B7 OMB not coming up on the Govt Check MOT database. Probably already transferred to another car ?
It's in Suffolk and says "Maintained throughout by specialist Elan M100 engineer"... wonder who that would be ? :lol:


Try L814 SVF. (It would appear that I am sad enough to have compiled a list of Palacio M100s!)
Palacio S2 #540
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