EE

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Postby rip » Sat 07.06.2008, 07:58

Just found the brake problem to be a ruptured pipe.

The rear of the two pipes in the middle of the pic is squirting fluid upwards.

Just to give you an idea of where you are looking in the pic:- I have taken it by removing off the off-side rear wheel. You can just about see the other rear wheel in the bottom left.

Nobody told me that owning an 18-year old car was easy!
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Postby paza1 » Sat 07.06.2008, 12:15

Wow, glad you are OK. Those look in a bad way. Are you going to replace both pipes? If so, will you replace upto where they disappear into the box section or the whole run?
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Postby rip » Sat 07.06.2008, 15:14

I believe that from the join, they run forward to somewhere around the engine bay.
I may as well get both done. If one has gone, the other could quite easily follow on quickly.
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Postby rip » Sun 08.06.2008, 08:48

Are they the proprtioning valves on that cross-member? If so, I will probably renew those too.
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Postby RayD » Sun 08.06.2008, 10:29

The proportioning valves are at the other side as you say, Rip.

With that amount of rust it's a wonder the brake pipes passed an MOT in the last 12 months. If that area of the car is typical you might have to change all the pipes to be on the safe side. :cry:

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Postby Rambo » Mon 09.06.2008, 14:03

RayD wrote:With that amount of rust it's a wonder the brake pipes passed an MOT in the last 12 months. If that area of the car is typical you might have to change all the pipes to be on the safe side. :cry:


Yes - rust never sleeps !
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby rip » Sun 23.11.2008, 02:21

Piper exhaust has changed the car completely. On a motorway journey, boost creep gives plenty more power. Turbo lag is reduced & the engine is very responsive to a slight increase in throttle opening. At full throttle, boost creep eventually rises to .94 bar at 5200rpm wgen overboost occurs. This is easily avoided by backing off the throttle very slightly without losing much performance so I see no need to port the wastegate.
The next major step is to get the ECU talkig to the O2 sensor so I can get the 1499 Everest back in.

I've done more than it feels like since posting my project list:

Short shift fitted
Braided hoses fitted
Stainless exhaust fitted
Wheel bearings sorted
Car alarm repaired, broken then replaced.
Mirrors better, but still not right
New brake pipes fitted after the old ones ruptured


To do list:

Fit K&N air filter (but not before logging more data)
Fit intake pipes & BOV
Fit stainless 'bones
New OSR top link arm
Upgrade gear change cables
Upgrade front brakes
Sort out ECU/O2 sensor & re-fit closed-loop Everest
Install New headlights
A post seals
Interior re-trim & seat re-furbishment
Repair drivers door window
Upgrade audio system
Tidy roof seals
Change instrument panel???
Last edited by rip on Thu 04.12.2008, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby RayD » Sun 23.11.2008, 11:37

rip wrote:...On a motorway journey, boost creep gives plenty more power. Turbo lag is reduced & the engine is very responsive to a slight increase in throttle opening. At full throttle, boost creep eventually rises to .94 bar at 5200rpm wgen overboost occurs. This is easily avoided by backing off the throttle very slightly without losing much performance so I see no need to port the wastegate.


I’m confused Rip,

When I asked what “boost creep“ was on here I was told...

“As I accelerated to overtake the engine warning light came on, and the engine tried to cut out until the speed dropped right down, the light went off and the car started again”....

...is a good description of the symptoms,

Which sounds pretty bad... whereas you seem to see it as a good thing. :?

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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby rip » Sun 23.11.2008, 12:42

Anything above .65bar is boost creep, but overboost does not occur until .94bar. That's a whole .29bar of extra power before fuel cut.
That's loads of power & is very controllable.
5200rpm in 5th is er...quite fast.
Overboost was quite undramatic too. Similar to slipping off the gas pedal.

I am still very pleased with the exhaust & have no plans to port my wastegate in the near future.
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby RayD » Sun 23.11.2008, 14:35

Thanks rip,

As you say...5200rpm in 5th is er...quite fast (110mph in round figures)

One result of searching for boost creep on the web says...

Boost creep: When the boost rises past the set limit.

If the set limit on the standard car is 0.65 and anything over is boost creep...does the set limit change when you fit a chip and become 0.94 or whatever?

Then if it goes over 0.94 you have boost creep, and the bit in between 0.65 and 0.94 is just extra boost?

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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby rip » Sun 23.11.2008, 14:56

Boost targets are 0.65 for stock, 0.8 for Kilimanjaro & 0.9 for Everest. Anything above these is creep & the only cure is to port the wastegate so it can allow more exhaust to bypass the turbo.
Overboost is when the fuel cut is triggered. For stock this is 0.94 (as I found out yesterday). This is slightly higher for the mountain chips (0.96 IIRC) which is why these can sometimes be a workaround to avoid overboost.
I quite like my boost creep and and happy to control it with my right foot.
With an Everest, target boost is 0.9 which is closer to overboost. This will be harder to control because the difference between target & overboost is small enough to be difficult for the driver to detect.
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby RayD » Sun 23.11.2008, 15:23

But........I thought your car had an Everest chip and your “target boost” or “set limit” would be 0.9?

When you refer to boost creep are you talking about the section between 0.9 and 0.94 when the fuel cuts off?

If so...What sort of boost gauge have got?

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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby rip » Sun 23.11.2008, 23:18

It did have an Everest. An S2 one, but there was a communication issue with the O2 sensor which was throwing up errors so I took the ECU back to stock. Boost creep is therefore between 0.65 & 0.94.

There is nothing unusual about my boost gauge. I was keeping an eye on it while driving then analysed the Elanscan data when I got home.
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby GeoffSmith » Sun 23.11.2008, 23:38

RayD wrote:One result of searching for boost creep on the web says...

Boost creep: When the boost rises past the set limit.

That's how I read it Ray. Without any control/feedback, the exhaust generates extra pressure at the inlet which produces more exhaust which generates ..... i.e. it would runaway to infinity and beyond if there were enough fuel.

The turbo pressure is regulated by diverting exhaust gases past the turbo and the wastegate orifice has obviously been designed to encompass a normal range of operating conditions; it can't be too big as the feedback would then be unstable and it can't be too small as it wouldn't divert enough exhaust to maintain the boost at the desired target level. The main problem with a large bore, free flowing exhaust is that the resistance to atmospheric pressure reduces, so the pressure at the turbo exit port drops and the pressure across the turbo increases - increased pressure across the turbo means more boost. If the wastegate can't control the level of boost (strictly speaking not just at maximum boost but anywhere in between - throttle positions below WOT gives target boost levels below the maximum) then the boost creeps up and ultimately can reach the fuel cutoff level, so the wastegate may need to be opened out to maintain the desired level of boost.
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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby RayD » Mon 24.11.2008, 00:09

Rip,

Sorry about the confusion, if you read your post from the point of view of me thinking you had an Everest chip you’ll be able to see how it happened.

Thanks for that Geoff.

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Re: Exploding Elan

Postby rip » Mon 25.05.2009, 16:57

My stainless bones are in place so I thought I'd give the chassis a clean-up ready for painting with POR-15.
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Clean chassis
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The engine bay is just about done. I was lazy when fitting the intake pipe so the jubilee clip chafed the hose which attaches to the expansion tank. I have now cut the intake hose a little shorter & will be buying a replacement Samco shortly.
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I also polished the exhaust & picked out the logo in blue paint.
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Re: EE

Postby rip » Wed 01.07.2009, 08:42

With the next few upgrades planned, I headed across the twisty A507 for an LEC meet/curry & to deliver a couple of steering racks last night.

Then I lose drive & it feels like the clutch has let go without warning.
But maybe not....when I stop, I see fluid drip hastily out from somewhere under the engine. The smell of gearbox oil is highly distinctive, so it was probably not the clutch at fault.

Dammit, this car is just one step ahead of me the whole time.
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Re: EE

Postby Don.Hasi » Wed 01.07.2009, 12:15

rip wrote:Dammit, this car is just one step ahead of me the whole time.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Same here... One doesn´t allow to think: RIGHT. READY... the car will notice it. How do I tell her, that she is always on my mind... not only in cases with Lots Of Troubles Usually Serious ? :roll:
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Re: EE

Postby Enright » Wed 01.07.2009, 14:48

rip wrote:The smell of gearbox oil is highly distinctive, so it was probably not the clutch at fault.

Uh-oh, that sounds like a bad one. :(
I'll be very interested to see photographic evidence of what went wrong.
Bear in mind that if a casing has cracked then the worst part MAY just be the labour involved in removing and replacing it (rather than the cost), as Lotus currently have a few significant aluminium bits in their aftermarket sale.
And there is always the possibility of aluminium welding once the thing that caused the problem has been located and rectified.
Specialists are even good enough to be able to repair castings that have cracked across threaded holes and bearing faces these days.
In fact I remember seeing a stand at Donington that were showing off their repairs of blown cylinder heads.
So don't lose heart. :)
Striking fear into the hearts of duplicate posts everywhere...! :P

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Re: EE

Postby Dave Eds » Wed 01.07.2009, 22:11

rip wrote:I headed across the twisty A507 for an LEC curry .........then I lose drive .......the clutch has let go without warning.........fluid drip ...........the smell of gearbox oil ..........


Stone chip? :lol:


And we were planning a rip the piss session when you got there :-D

So what news is there mate?
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