"Lucky" The Basket Case!

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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Simon_P » Sat 27.08.2022, 12:45

Jayeme69 wrote:Yes he does but its £380 + £100 for a dash loom and i just cant afford or justify spending anywhere near that much ATM as ive just spent a considerable amount on parts already so unfortunately this project is going to have to take a back seat for the time being.
well you've been offered the expensive bit and haven't yet tried haggling with Appollo, so its not £380 +£100. Me going to look for a more competitively priced alternative just took a back seat as I'll have to walk 70 m and climb over a load of stuff. Think I'll put the battery in the green car and get it in the garage for some pampering before the MOT and the end of the summer instead.
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby chrism » Sat 27.08.2022, 12:48

...you must speak fluent Gibberish cos i didn't understand a word of that...

Sorry for the Gibberish Jayeme69. Just trying to offer support + sympathy...
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby RonR » Sun 28.08.2022, 16:21

I'd hate to see this one scrapped.

More Gibberish I'm afraid!

Second-hand ECU prices have been stupidly high for a long time, especially as a new old-stock one can be had much cheaper! (He said - hoping there's still stock left at the factory).

If you look on Bell & Colville (Deroure.com) or SJ Sportscars web sites, they both list an ECU part number A100E6533F for £144.88 + VAT - it's the one used on US cars (except California) and all S2s, so you'd just need to fit an O2 sensor into the exhaust downpipe to have the desirable low-emission set-up. I have one in my SE.

If nothing else you could use the price as a bargaining chip with Mr Apollo!

However if you want a straight SE ECU, I'll exchange an SE memcal for the S2 one FOC, or for a small sum I could provide a board with the latest SE prom.

I also have part numbers for ECU plugs if you fancy some wiring & soldering practice - They're not 100% the same, but can be made to fit with a little "Fettling".
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby RonR » Sun 28.08.2022, 17:27

Update on the ECU plugs - They're Aptiv (Formerly Delphi) Micro-Pak 100 series automotive connectors:

Links are to "Mouser" parts, but they're probably available from other places.
32-way plug
Secondary Lock 1 for 32-way plug
Secondary Lock 2 for 32-way plug

24-way plug
Secondary Lock 1 for 24-way plug
Secondary Lock 2 for 24-way plug

Plug Pins

The locating tabs need to be trimmed to fit the ECU:
Img_0299.jpg
Plugs connected to ECU
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby HJ2 » Mon 29.08.2022, 11:20

Top info! 8)
If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Jayeme69 » Thu 01.09.2022, 12:24

RonR wrote:Update on the ECU plugs - They're Aptiv (Formerly Delphi) Micro-Pak 100 series automotive connectors:

Links are to "Mouser" parts, but they're probably available from other places.
32-way plug
Secondary Lock 1 for 32-way plug
Secondary Lock 2 for 32-way plug

24-way plug
Secondary Lock 1 for 24-way plug
Secondary Lock 2 for 24-way plug

Plug Pins

The locating tabs need to be trimmed to fit the ECU:
Img_0299.jpg


Thank you, that's brilliant but the loom is cut too short to reach so i would have to extend all the wires to be able to use these and ive just lost my Mojo ATM, Kinda super deflated! :(
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Jayeme69 » Thu 01.09.2022, 12:34

RonR wrote:I'd hate to see this one scrapped.

More Gibberish I'm afraid!

Second-hand ECU prices have been stupidly high for a long time, especially as a new old-stock one can be had much cheaper! (He said - hoping there's still stock left at the factory).

If you look on Bell & Colville (Deroure.com) or SJ Sportscars web sites, they both list an ECU part number A100E6533F for £144.88 + VAT - it's the one used on US cars (except California) and all S2s, so you'd just need to fit an O2 sensor into the exhaust downpipe to have the desirable low-emission set-up. I have one in my SE.

If nothing else you could use the price as a bargaining chip with Mr Apollo!

However if you want a straight SE ECU, I'll exchange an SE memcal for the S2 one FOC, or for a small sum I could provide a board with the latest SE prom.

I also have part numbers for ECU plugs if you fancy some wiring & soldering practice - They're not 100% the same, but can be made to fit with a little "Fettling".



So what you are saying is, if i buy that ECU, the plugs and pins and whack it all together it will run fine? I don't think ill need a lambda as the car is a 91 so doesn't need a cat and does not fall under the emissions rules so no emissions test needed, ( according to my MOT tester)
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby dapinky » Thu 01.09.2022, 13:00

Jayeme69 wrote:So what you are saying is, if i buy that ECU, the plugs and pins and whack it all together it will run fine? I don't think ill need a lambda as the car is a 91 so doesn't need a cat and does not fall under the emissions rules so no emissions test needed, ( according to my MOT tester)


If you fit an ECU with a 1499 MEMCAL you will need a lambda sensor as that particular PROM requires an input for it to run properly.

That said, even without an O2 sensor the engine will run (if everything else is working correctly) but the emission control will not be right as it will be searching for an input on Air/Fuel ratio from the sensor. As such, it will show an engine management fault showing that the O2 sensor is not working (because it isn't there!).

Not sure where your information on it not needing an emissions test comes from, as the age of the car dictates that it has to be less than 3.5% CO, and less than 1200ppm hydrocarbons. It doesn't need a cat, but it still has to comply with the limits.

My car used to be slightly under the CO limit on a 9930 MEMCAL, but is now well under it with an O2 sensor (somewhere around 0.6% at the last test).
Dave

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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby RonR » Thu 01.09.2022, 13:21

Dave beat me to it, but just to add anyway:

All M100 ECUs are exactly the same electronically, the only difference is in the computer program that is stored on the "Memcal", of which there have been several versions.
The "1499" version in the ECU has code which checks the O2 sensor signal and uses it to adjust the air/fuel mixture. Other versions use a "CO Potentiometer" to set the mixture manually. Hopefully yours is still there?

There are 2 ways you can go with the A100E6533F ECU:
1. Use the ECU as it is and install an O2 sensor, plus if you're unlucky there are 2 extra wires to add into the loom. Gives lower emissions and better MPG.
2. Change the program Memcal for one that doesn't require an O2 sensor - I can exchange one FOC if you'd like, possibly even re-program yours.
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Rambo » Thu 01.09.2022, 13:28

Dapinky said "Not sure where your information on it not needing an emissions test comes from, as the age of the car dictates that it has to be less than 3.5% CO, and less than 1200ppm hydrocarbons. It doesn't need a cat, but it still has to comply with the limits"

Correct Dave :smt023

And, as previously discussed, the M100 only has 1 ECU under the glovebox. The engine won't start without an ECU so :wtf:
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby 378S2 » Thu 01.09.2022, 13:45

…we do need to get to the bottom of this zombie engine!
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby dapinky » Thu 01.09.2022, 14:24

RonR wrote:......All M100 ECUs are exactly the same electronically, the only difference is in the computer program that is stored on the "Memcal"......


Very close, BUT the only exception is the N/A cars had a different (much more basic) ECU without anything advanced inside..... so All Turbo ECU's are the same, but an N/A one wont work at all :wink:

I know it is unlikely, but if you find a cheap N/A ECU, don't be tempted unless you have an N/A car (or an Impulse XS).
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby RonR » Thu 01.09.2022, 14:25

Oops, Forgot the N/A! :oops:
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Rambo » Thu 01.09.2022, 18:44

378S2 wrote:…we do need to get to the bottom of this zombie engine!


Surely if Jayme69 had the engine running as stated the ECU must have been chopped and stolen from his own garage? :shock:

Can you post the video with the engine running Jayme? Need to hear whether it is sweet or a bag of nails
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby 378S2 » Fri 02.09.2022, 12:59

But who would steal an ECU from an obscure car like an Elan?
Last edited by 378S2 on Thu 06.10.2022, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby chrism » Fri 02.09.2022, 14:52

I'm a 'this year's' owner so I haven't ben an elanner for long but one thing that has amazed me is the truly stupendous prices being asked for, and paid, for m100 stuff.

For heaven's sake - I've just seen rear dampers for ~£540, fronts for ~£280, 4 wheel centres for ~£100, 10 for ~£170 (all as far as I remember...), wheels for £thousands, ecus for half that...

Why? Honestly if I'd known that there were so many 'vendors' circling eagerly to swoop down and demand such stupid prices I really wouldn't have bothered to entertain the prospect of joining forces with such a sad spectacle of greed and opportunism. As a new owner I 'caught a cold' several times when buying parts that were broken or missing from my new m100, battery cover, seat protector, digital clock, boot seal etc etc

What's happened to m100 club membership? Thankfully many people on this forum are prepared to 'share' - mostly their knowledge and skills - and there are even cases of free stuff being posted. Recently KenS offered to share his D-fill plug, RonR shared his phenomenal 9930/1499 dual board memcal innovation - others have bothered to make the effort to offer really useful/essential advice - and personal experiences such as these have served to almost 'balance' the apparent greed that others are offering me.

What a shame there even needs to be any form of balancing. Sorry to rant, but surely all this can't really be acceptable?

And the fact that some gorilla seems to have chopped a perfectly good wiring harness in his/her/their frantic attempt to join in with that gluttony makes me so sad :roll:...
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby dapinky » Fri 02.09.2022, 16:00

Chris,

I can't argue with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think that the costs of some advertised parts are realistic in any way, shape or form.

We can easily see parts advertised for very high (stupid) prices - often far more than you can buy them for brand new from Lotus or elsewhere...... but not always.

Quite often it is the same sellers who are the owners of the parts, and whilst I appreciate that we live in a society where supply and demand drive the prices, and that everyone has to earn a living - blah, blah, blah..... but the important bit to remember is that something is only worth what someone will pay.

Those who really want "originality" will pay a premium for genuine parts, whilst others will find a 'work-around' to get them back on the road.

There is no way that a set of S2 wheels is worth £2K (or SE wheels worth a grand) - but if you have a really nice S2 and hit a pothole, what are you gonna do???? (I wouldn't - but you get the drift).

Likewise, is a rear light unit worth £750??? - not to me - but if you get rear-ended what are you gonna do???? (when someone else's insurance or wallet is paying).

One of the well-known breakers pays peanuts for 'parts cars' and then strips them to sell - he will get his investment back very quickly, and the rest of the parts go into stock - he really isn't bothered if they sell this week or in 10 years time - he has made his profit already. Often he simply bids the highest price in an open forum, and a few times he has been prepared to pay more for 'parts; than I am for a 'project'.... or will simply make contact with a seller and is prepared to be there with a trailer within 24 hours - anyone else can do this if they wish to (or not) - sometimes I do, sometimes I don't......

If he advertises an ECU at more than £100 he is making money (whatever car it was designed for)..... but sometimes people will pay it (especially a garage who doesn't deal in these cars regularly).

Whenever I see a post on here asking about things like that, I try to be realistic in my explanations of options (there are always options - just that some require more effort than others).
Dave

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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby chrism » Fri 02.09.2022, 17:48

Yep; point made...

I wonder, if Lotus ever became as close to it's customers as MG did, whether there might be a parallel commercial enterprise - like the MGOC - charged with keeping a parts supply going (hence curtail those outrageous prices due to rarity) and keeping the Lotus brand 'alive' and more readily available to all? (whatever their Lotus persuasion)

Cor wouldn't that be good... :D
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby dapinky » Fri 02.09.2022, 18:24

Chris,

The 'old' Lotus company used to offer support (but not to the extent that MG do/do) - unfortunately, along the way they got sold to new owners who had a different business model, and we are where we are.

Fortunately we have a number of specialist companies who are looking at keeping stuff available (SJs, Lotusbits, PNM etc) but they can't invest in everything. We are better off than many in so much as many owners have done their own thing and helped with supply of some stuff - but again, not everything.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it

go on - click this link - you know you want to!
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Re: "Lucky" The Basket Case!

Postby Rambo » Sat 03.09.2022, 07:54

Chris - I can assure you that the spirit of friendship and generosity is still alive and well in LEC. Just ask if you need any advice or a spare part to borrow or even keep. Many of us have a plethora of spare parts that are gathering dust and only too happy to help a fellow LEC'er. We're not all greedy EBay'ers intending to profit out of someone elses misfortune :?

Only last w/e at Silverstone, Muley and Philflashman stayed over on the Sunday night to help me out when I had an immobiliser/fuel pump problem 300 miles from home. It turned out that 3 heads were better than 1 (4 if you count Wikilec :lol: ) and in the end we all learnt something through the hot wiring episode. So thanks to Phil and Jim :cheers:
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