The Flying Cat

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Postby Sy V » Sun 15.01.2006, 09:34

You swine! You've got me thinking here.

A single (driver's) aperture (a la the M200) in a GRP colour-co-ordinated tonneau-type cover/panel, with clear plastic screen/deflector.

It would cost a small fortune and would have to be made to fit after the seat and rollcage were in place but...? :shock:
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Postby philip_sloper » Sun 15.01.2006, 10:55

I am sure I am just telling you how to suck eggs, Sy, but you need to be sure what is allowed by the regulations for whatever class/championship you have decided to compete in.

The regs may require that you keep the screen.
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Postby Sy V » Sun 15.01.2006, 11:23

MSA Year Book

10.2.2 Windscreens

"Windscreens are mandatory for all closed vehicles. They are free for open vehicles (Having read more of the year book, they use 'free' to imply 'without regulation')...Windsreen wipers must be operative on all vehicles with windscreens."
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Postby Sy V » Sun 15.01.2006, 11:40

Bodywork

"12.4.7 Open cars with hoods may have them removed..."

"12.4.8 Tonneau covers are permitted providing they are of a flexible material and were originally specified for the vehicle" My bank manager has just sighed with relief!
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Postby philip_sloper » Sun 15.01.2006, 19:11

So does the screen stay or go?
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Postby Sy V » Sun 15.01.2006, 21:09

It probably stays. For the time being...
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Sun 15.01.2006, 23:01

Sy V wrote:You swine! You've got me thinking here.

A single (driver's) aperture (a la the M200) in a GRP colour-co-ordinated tonneau-type cover/panel, with clear plastic screen/deflector.

It would cost a small fortune and would have to be made to fit after the seat and rollcage were in place but...? :shock:


Phew!
For a moment I thought you were referring to me then Sy :P

Anyway, far be it for me to provoke thought or cause trouble...



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Postby stevo » Mon 16.01.2006, 00:08

:poke: :goodposting: :smt064
arancio baby! thats italian for orange! i think?
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Postby Doug » Mon 16.01.2006, 05:13

:agree:


:smt106
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Postby Philbo » Mon 16.01.2006, 18:29

This looks awesome, Sy. Your stripey and my project car are pretty similar, apart from the nascent ECU/mapping project being done on mine, and I definitely *am* going to track mine (for fun, not competitively), so we'll see how well they hold together.

The R888 is a good choice of tyre IMO. The only thing I've heard about them is that they are pretty soft, people are getting only around 3000 road miles out of them, and probably just a couple of track days (though you could rotate the set front to back as the wear is disproportionate on the fronts on track).

I've thought about going "extreme" with my Elan, but I opted to keep it looking standard for road use and bought a Radical for the track, so I'll be very interested to see how you get on with a stripped out job.

What regulations do you have to stick to for your chosen formula? The only reason I ask is because I've always felt that some of the inherent weight in the Elan would always render it uncompetitive. The steel chassis, cast iron block and thick bodywork is all pretty heavy stuff.

I'd wonder what an aluminium-chassis'd Elan with thin fibreglass bodywork and a light alloy block would be like, but I don't want to give you ideas! Carbon-fibre bodywork would be stunning to look at too...

Good luck and keep us informed...I think you'll find a use for that Haltech yet...
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Postby Kuching » Mon 16.01.2006, 21:41

Philbo, I've been thinking along similar lines regarding the weight of the car for track use. As I see it, the backbone chassis layout fundamentally limits the torsional rigidity of the vehicle due to its very small cross-sectional area. Changing the material to aluminium would help with the weight but at the considerable expense of stiffness, further reducing the control that the dampers can have on vehicle dynamics. Any increase in spring stiffness for track use will compound this problem.

The solution is to replace the backbone chassis with a tubular space-frame, which picks up on the spring/damper mounts, reacting the torsional loads through this large cross-sectional area structure. This way the weight could be reduced, dynamic control would be better, and you get a roll cage for free!
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Postby Doug » Mon 16.01.2006, 21:45

Kuching wrote:The solution is to replace the backbone chassis with a tubular space-frame, which picks up on the spring/damper mounts, reacting the torsional loads through this large cross-sectional area structure. This way the weight could be reduced, dynamic control would be better, and you get a roll cage for free!


:goodposting: :bowdown:


:wink:
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Mon 16.01.2006, 22:02

Kuching wrote:Philbo, I've been thinking along similar lines regarding the weight of the car for track use. As I see it, the backbone chassis layout fundamentally limits the torsional rigidity of the vehicle due to its very small cross-sectional area. Changing the material to aluminium would help with the weight but at the considerable expense of stiffness, further reducing the control that the dampers can have on vehicle dynamics. Any increase in spring stiffness for track use will compound this problem.

The solution is to replace the backbone chassis with a tubular space-frame, which picks up on the spring/damper mounts, reacting the torsional loads through this large cross-sectional area structure. This way the weight could be reduced, dynamic control would be better, and you get a roll cage for free!


...or a full carbon monocoque :twisted: :poke:

Yer head hurtin' yet Sy :lol:
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Postby surfboardfiller » Tue 17.01.2006, 00:53

Kuching wrote:The solution is to replace the backbone chassis with a tubular space-frame, which picks up on the spring/damper mounts, reacting the torsional loads through this large cross-sectional area structure. This way the weight could be reduced, dynamic control would be better, and you get a roll cage for free!


I was thinking about this, then I read your post; I was thinking that a chassis design (like the Esprit) normally incorporates the roof structure to it's resilience to torque, and when I bought the Élan I was (and still am) wondering if the bulk head behind the seats is part of the chassis design like the (esprit is), this obviously prevents a degree of resilience to lateral pressure: preventing the chassis from skewing.

I am very interested in an integrated roll cage & chassis design. Sounds like a good solution to over egging the torque and suspension. Nice one!

Love to help too but I'm only a Designer! :(
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Postby Sy V » Tue 17.01.2006, 06:38

Bl**dy hell.

One mention of the word 'Radical' and everyone starts thinking outside the box!

Another designer comes to the fore too. What a knowledge base we have to ignore!

Simon C

I think it's time you blew your own trumpet and gave us pictures/links to some of your more recent projects...
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Tue 17.01.2006, 06:56

Well Sy, it's free advice...and worth every penny :D
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Postby Sy V » Tue 17.01.2006, 09:37

I'm eternally grateful too, don't get me wrong. But, whilst I hear what's being said about the chassis etc, I ain't going there! :lol:
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Postby Stef » Tue 17.01.2006, 13:26

This Renault Spyder has a strange device at the front which scoops in air and flows it up like a 'wind' screen.

Nifty bit of kit.
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Postby Kuching » Tue 17.01.2006, 14:15

Sy V wrote:I'm eternally grateful too, don't get me wrong. But, whilst I hear what's being said about the chassis etc, I ain't going there! :lol:

Don't worry Sy, I was just trying to provoke discussion. In any case, a spaceframe chassis would not comply with any GpN or GpA based event. On the other hand, we could set up our own race series and write the regulations to whatever suits us. OK, so maybe I'm not really being serious about that either........Or am I!?!
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Postby Sy V » Tue 17.01.2006, 14:27

Is this an example of your work Simon?
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