Rosie's return to glory

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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Thu 30.04.2020, 23:52

@esprit888
Awesome, thanks! I can see on the left hand side that the clearance isn't much either, but right side was pressed down on it.

Here is the progress on the prongeron. Starting off with some citrus degreaser...
start.jpg

Time for the real nasty cleaners...
mid.jpg

2hrs later and a lot of elbow grease
finished.jpg
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Sun 03.05.2020, 00:25

Ok, fitted my RH drive shaft and it looks to me like your inner boot was replaced with an aftermarket one that had the bellows too large for the space available (which isn't a lot to begin with) The clearance on mine, which has the OEM GKN inner boot, is 14mm from the closest bellows to the flat part of the metal frame (not the bolt) and this is at maximum extension (I.E no load on the spring, full deflection downwards)
IMG_3884.JPG

IMG_3885.JPG
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 04.05.2020, 15:13

Thanks @esprit888!
Wow, 14mm, that is barely the depth of a wrench plus the head of the bolt to get over it! The photos are a real help to see the pivot angle and clearance, and I'm jealous of that clean under bay ;).

This weekend I got the caliper off the right rear hub. Debating if I really need to take the hub assembly apart too, like the restoration series suggests to catch the bolts before corrosion gets too bad, or just wait until the next brake job. I have no end of other stubborn bolts that need attention, so I'm leaning towards letting them be for now.

Also power wire wheel brushed off paint and rust from the left rear wishbone and the ARBs. Did a vinegar hand scrub on them, rinse, dry, and then some zinc primer. Then some paint, and over that I tried out some spray on rubberized underseal to help with stone chips in the future.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Thu 07.05.2020, 11:17

Well, I already had the hub assembly in the vice, so I couldn't help not taking it apart. Bolts were in good shape, but plenty of surface junk to clean on the hub and assembly.
Image
And then I went mad lad with the wire wheel brush.
Image

Dismantle, clean, and replace bearings on the hub next.

Pre clean shot: My stub axle on the right and someone else's who had a very bad day (this way packed in the trunk in a box along with a shattered rear brake hub, when I got the car)
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 25.05.2020, 17:34

Phase 1 done!

The front calipers I had gotten didn't fit of course (second time around too), so I just stripped them down and used the parts to rebuild the original ones (still cheaper than a rebuild kit somehow).
Image
All back together with new front discs.
Image

Finally it was time for the left rear hub rebuild. Everything was going according to the restoration series video, until it came to the outer bearings. Everything was up on the car and I was trying to put the outer bearings in when I discovered I had not put the race in yet, however the inner bearings loctite compound had already set the inner bearings to the journal. Lots of frantic swearing, but ended up taking the hub back to the bench to get the outer race in too. Maybe someone else has a pro-tip, but I used the old bearing race as a drift to get the new race inserted (without a press). It was too tight to use it to go all the way in, but I had an impact wrench socket that had a comparable diameter but still had enough clearance to not get stuck, that I could use as a drift to finish the job. With both races in now, I just pressed the hub back together on the stub axle and hopefully the seal in the back got on tight enough.
All cleaned up and back on the car
Image
Happy with the final result
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 25.05.2020, 18:14

Why and where did you use loctite on the wheel bearing? Was something worn out?

Basic Rule: NEVER use loctite on bearings.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 25.05.2020, 18:43

Yeah @B-C-N, It didn't look worn, but I don't have an informed opinion and am just following along with the restoration youtube series :| . It's the green stuff specifically for retaining bearing sleeves so that the bearing sleeve doesn't spin on the stub axle; just the bearing/bearing needles spin. Curious what others have experienced too before I tackle the other one.
Also, does anyone else use copper anti-sieze grease between the aluminum alloy wheels and the mating face of the steel brake disc hub? Mine had horrible corrosion before, so I used it when I put the wheels back on to prevent that from happening again. I can easily remove it if needed, but that hub bearing on the other-hand isn't go anywhere soon (except on the road at this point ;)).
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 25.05.2020, 21:46

You should NEVER use any Loctite products for bearings except for a very short term I "gotta go right now" because when applied correctly, the spindle would have been damaged and should have been replaced.

I often hear of others using green loctite to hold the outer races into bad hubs. That is really only for pushing the car around the shop and then, the hub (or disc assembly in the M100's case) would need to be replaced.

A good example of this issue came up when SVS did a run of (repro Bob B.)rear hubs to allow for larger brake disks ended up with several buyers with useless hubs since the machinist(s) didn't dial the manufacturing specs correctly.
Those hubs had to be replaced.

Your pictures look like you have stock discs with the integral hub and not a base hub with a floating disc (which allows use of alternative and cheaper discs as needed).

If you have a 2 part "kit", then it is important to get them checked to make sure the press fit tolerances are adhered to.

Also, if the spindle was badly darkened at the bearing contact points, it should have been measured and verified to make sure it was safe. Loctite can be used for non-critical parches, but NEVER on a spindle / bearing for a car.

When a bearing spins on the spindlew or the race spins in the hub, the temperatures go up really high and the temper as well as dimensions are no longer safe.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 25.05.2020, 23:40

Hmm, pretty sure it is a stock setup. The cross section is just like the workshop manual. And you can see the condition of the stub axle when I pulled it out at the start of the rebuild (last picture of my previous post). No real discoloration or wear marks at the bearing locations that I could/can see. Whelp, she's on there now, so what to do? Sounds like you're worried that the compound may expand in the heat of use and put extra pressure on the bearings/hub and wear either/both out prematurely? Given the state of the restoration I think I'll press on for now and come back to this after I've gained more practice rebuilding the other hub, unless you think this is the kind of problem that would manifest in the tens, to hundreds of miles.

The good news is that once I had everything back on, I was able to take Rosie out for the first time yesterday. :burnout: Just some nips around a private road to see that the gauges and odometer work (yes, they do) and that the brakes work (yes, they do). Some things we already know are whacky remain:
    The boost gauge fluttered like a butterfly (but maybe calmed down as she warmed up?)
    The drive in second was pretty lumpy (but it seemed to get better as she warmed up?)
    The lack of A/C was a drag in the 90 degree heat.
New observations were that:
    The turn signal doesn't turn off by itself after turns and I could barely hear it or see the indicator light in the sun.
    She ran pretty hot, getting up to half way on the gauge, and the fans never turned on.
    The speedometer seemed slower than it felt (but this is my first convertible so maybe top down just feels faster?).
    The ride in general transmitted a lot from the road (on such a short run I don't know if the shocks are bad or that might just be the sport car feel?)
    The sun visors just get in the way :)

If I do it again, I'll try and capture some engine codes with the paper clip to see if anything else is up. I'll be honest though, it was pretty fun and suddenly that list of things that I was going to do before really driving her is getting that nagging 'do I really need to do that first?' voice over in my head. Need a couple days to think it over to see if I can bite-size portion out the restoration to make it more 'rolling' and less 'up on jacks' :smt031 for a year before going out again.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 01.06.2020, 04:03

After one more ride and a more diligent review of my notes/observations (and some new discoveries) I think its better than I thought.
Simple stuff first:
    Turn signal was a just loose bulb up front. Done.
    Shocks seemed fine on second run and the bounce test and visual inspection.
    Speedometer seems fine, just not used to the scale of the dial range.
    Running hot? Fans actually came on at end of second run. No bubbles/boiling in the head tank; no residue in the cams. And being in this climate, I won't worry until after the radiator flush and recirc pump install.
    Boost flutter? Seems wiring related since touching the wires while the dashboard instrument access panel was off made it crazy. Will chase down wires, and wastegate service planned in the future anyway.
New stuff: Kinda hard to do a paperclip test on the error codes when there is no CEL. Wait, what, I hadn't noticed that the CEL has been out this whole time? :oops: After a night of worrying about having to replace the ECM because the second lamp I put in it's place didn't work either, I was finally able to get it on with a third bulb. Whew. Had to take the whole thing out though to get access to the dumb lamps. Image
I don't think cannibalizing the #3 slot lamp for the 'ABS' should be a problem :roll: . Finally able to do a paperclip test and...12's all the way. Battery has been off since I ran it though, so it's all relative, but points to a working ECM at least. While I was digging around to check out the condition of the ECM, I did find these open connectors too. I'm assuming innocuous, but would love tips if otherwise.
Image
Back to the engine, when it did run, it shudders/kangarooed when between 1k and 1.5k RPMs. Seems like others have had the same problem and there are some good places to start now that I have way to trouble shoot. ElanScan would be preferred, but I don't think any of the pre-made interfaces are available now (but PM if that isn't true...). But before any of that, there is a fuel leak at the regulator at the end of the fuel rail that needs to be addressed. Just went ahead and ordered a new one. Plenty of bits and bobs to address in the meantime while I wait for that :)
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 01.06.2020, 05:48

TorqueHorse wrote: While I was digging around to check out the condition of the ECM, I did find these open connectors too. I'm assuming innocuous, but would love tips if otherwise.
Image


You need to provide a much wider picture to get an idea what you are looking at. You can decrease the resolution (a bit) to keep the size down. You can email it to me rather than post it here.

I can resize it to post if you want...

I think the connectors with the yellow bits are for the airbag connections. Does your car still have the Pontiac Firebird steering wheel with the air bag in the center?

My car has the steering column exposed with the knee bolster removed, so I should be able to find those connections if I could see them clearer.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Tue 02.06.2020, 02:33

Yeah, sorry about that photo. I've seen bowls of spaghetti that looked clearer than that. Deep inside the footwell doesn't really offer wide expansive views though :wink: , but here is more context at least. Camera is on the gas pedal looking to the left with the hood release being in the bottom left of frame.
Image
The previous photo was taken more from the clutch pedal, looking up and left.
Yep, still have the airbagged steering, and the circuit check per the SIR lamp at ignition works OK, so I'm not worried that that isn't plugged in at least.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 02.06.2020, 02:57

I will try to crawl under my dash tomorrow and see if I can identify the plugs. I don't recall my car having those, but it was along time ago that I was in there.

I also have to practice testing a mirror switch.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 03.06.2020, 13:19

I finally got under the dash and I don't see any white plug like in your picture. Maybe it is part of an alarm installation?
under dash.jpg
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Wed 03.06.2020, 20:04

@BCN, thanks. I guess no harm, no foul at this point, so I'll move on. But If I do chase it down, I'll share it here.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Thu 25.06.2020, 06:20

Keeping on Creeping on
With the pile of parts mounting in the garage I was determined to start putting some things back on the car, so I decided to tackle the trunk.
dirty faded.jpg
It was in a sorry, neglected state and I had even pulled the lock off the instant I had finally been able to open the trunk, months ago. I'd been nervous to put it back on and have it get stuck again, but I wanted it off the workbench, so I took a crack at it. First I just let the whole lock cylinder soak in WD40 overnight and then I could wipe a lot of gunk out of it. Then I filled it with graphite and the action seemed to work ok, on the bench at least. Then I cleaned out the trunk, scrubbing the fiberglass and I derusted and restored the spare tire mount and lugnut wrench while I was at it. It was also time to put Rosie the mouse to rest at last, may her spirit always watch over the car.
Rosie the mouse.jpg
RIP Rosie the Mouse

With little Rosie taken care of (and surprised that the original spare tire was able to still hold air), I focused on the lock and how I could feel safe that it wouldn't get stuck again. I know eventually I want to put in a trunk release solenoid and button, but I have too much creep going on already so i just have a jury-rigged prototype for now. I was able to thread some string through the vent gaps and it attaches to the latch release, inside the hood.
release.jpg

There is a hole on the latch which looks like it is made for this and works great with a little tug on the string. Now I'm not scared of locking the keys in there or even if the lock seizes up again this is directly on the latch, so less things to go wrong. It also gives me a good idea for how I could run some airline cable with a solenoid for the electric release down the line. During this time I also had the joy of taking off the 11 screws, just to check on why one of the license plate lights wasn't working (loose bulb). While I was in there, I continued to clean and restore the trim. Very happy with the results of the Meguiars Black.
clean.jpg
Yay, trunk cleaned, trim tidied up, and metal pieces restored/repainted.


Then I thought I would be on a roll and go ahead and get the windshield glass replaced to make the front look better too. Called a glass shop and they had a piece in town, and could come by the next morning (why weren't alarm bells going off that it was too good to be true at this point?). I excitedly took apart the a-pillar seal and channel and interior trim, only to have the glass show up and be nowhere close to a fit. One of the sources has it listed that the Isuzu Impulse windshield fits as a substitute, but not this one. So that was very disappointing because I still have a cracked windshield and now there is even more crap that I've uncovered that needs to be fixed/cleaned. Some of the screws that hold the aluminum channel to the frame had completely rusted away and the biggest surprise was that the 'drain' at the edges hadn't just been clogged, but actually filled in with what looks like sikaflex. Its in both sides, so that is fun trying to dig out.
blocked drain.jpg

Surprisingly though, the seals came right out with no fuss or tearing, so I guess I'll have to nurse them along for a while longer, sorry Jaime ;)

And I've sent off my fuel injectors to get cleaned, but in the middle of getting the fuel regulator off to replace, I managed to bust the infamous MAP sensor take-off. Doh.
cracked.jpg
I read a couple threads here of how to replace with brass. I'm wondering about just epoxying it too though... And any thoughts on soaking it in something to clean it out first before putting back on, or not necessary?

Also to have a little bit of fun, I was thinking of ways to make do with what I've got. So, after a bottle of nail polish that is a pretty close match to calypso red later, I think I've made some lemonade out of the lemon that is the airbag steering wheel. Here it is in a test fit.
lemonade.jpg


Finally, I'm trying to think of a better way to secure the gauges. Its been noted how crumbly the white housing plastic is, and once that goes there is nothing stopping the gauges from falling back into the console. I'd love tips if others came up with a way already. I'm thinking I might epoxy something to the back of the brace plate and come up with some new fitting for the metal stays on the back of the gauges so they are holding against compression and tension.
gauge mounts.jpg


Next up, going to do a compression test to see if I need to go all the way to replace the head gasket, or If I can just get away with the cam cover and restoring the tappets.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Tue 30.06.2020, 19:51

Compression test
Well, like most things with Rosie its a mixed bag of good and bad.
cylinder 1 180 psi
cylinder 2 91 psi
cylinder 3 180 psi
cylinder 4 180 psi
(Oh, I did a wet compression test too and there was no change.)

Cylinder 2 is the same cylinder that sounded like crap (folks think it was tappets). From my online diagnosing, I'm guessing this means that since there was no emulsion in the cam area, no bubbles in the coolant tank, and the PSI between adjoining cylinders is consistently high, that the headgasket is actually ok and that my problem is valve related in cylinder 2 (plus the tappets).

Buuuuuuttt... to work on the valves, don't I have to take the the cylinder head off anyway (and thereby break the headgasket seal)?

I'll continue to review the WSM, but I'm heavily leaning to just saying f'it and pulling the engine at this point. I also still need to replace the cam belt so I think that would be easier with it pulled, but I know it will create a lot more creep (like the mainfolds and have you seen how dirty my engine bay is?)
Image
:shock:
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 30.06.2020, 20:49

I would think it will be a lot less work (and project creep) to pull the head. You could always rotate the engine so all 4 valves are closed, lock the flywheel and push air thru the spark plug hole and see if you can identify where the pressure is going. A leak-down tester is a useful tool for this. It should confirm burnt (burned?) valves, cracked pistons, broken rings or damaged cylinder bore before taking apart more than is necessary or realizing a replacement engine is necessary.

Talk with Jonathan F. - Saltire for a review of what it took to figure out what went wrong with his engine. viewtopic.php?f=80&t=27928&start=160#p358324.

They also make really small video cameras that could be used to look inside the cylinder - think proctoscope...

Research before tearing it apart.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Saltire » Tue 30.06.2020, 21:34

Happy to help if I can.

I pulled the engine, which, on balance, was a good call - but only because it meant I was able to cope with the scope creep better. My issue was rust on the exhaust valve stems in 2 and 3, together with three solid tappets that wouldn’t free up. Valves cleaned up fine, no other engine damage, new tappets, and reassembly starts tomorrow.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Wed 01.07.2020, 18:45

Thanks for the tips and offer for help, BCN and Saltire. :D
I guess you are right that I can always start by removing the cam cover in-situ and then build up to pulling the whole enchilada based on what I find. I'll try and turn the engine and get some air on that cylinder this weekend to learn more first. Need to clean my workspace too, to really dedicate to the tappet and cam/valve job, because it sounds like lots of little pieces that have to stay in the right order.
I'm still trying to wrap up getting the instrument panel and knee bolster back in place and I still have some niggles to iron out on the rear brake job (getting the handbrake pull finished and I think I over extended one of the rear calipers before I put it on because the pads drag a bit on the disc). Get that taken care of and then diving into the cam cover and we'll see what's what. I hope it is as benign as some rusty valves :smt105
Hope the reassembly is going well Saltire!
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