Lotus Elan Central

I can't really justify calling this a major project, so this seems to be the best place for it. I've mentioned elsewhere that I have bought a second Elan, and just how lovely it is. I've covered the best part of a thousand miles now, and have enjoyed them all. There are a few things to do, however. Keeping the rain out is the most pressing one.

However, I put the car in the air today for two reasons: to see if my 15" SE wheels will fit over the larger brakes (the wheels are shod with winter tyres); and to do a general inspection.

I believe that the front brakes are Subaru discs with Vectra calipers, but the good news is that the SE wheels fit! Now I can send them off to be refurbished in gunmetal matt black. Here are some pictures of the brakes, in case anyone thinks that they are something other than the Subaru/Vectra combo:









From my inspection, there are a few jobs to be done. The NS front wheelarch liner is missing:


Rear suspension components look rusty, but the rust is only surface rust. I shall probably paint it all, but that means disassembly.




The front suspension needs painting too.

Other than that, everything looks great.

glad to know you decided to keep the second elan (damn no more spare parts )
afraid i cant help much, the disks are pretty similar to the ones fitted in my celica (ill take a pic to compare. when back home)

let us know how you progress with the suspencion. mine is in a similar state as yours (bit worse) so any tips on you done it will be helpfull in the event i feel brave enough to tackle such task

whats the performance of that set of disks and callipers like? better than the standard ones?

Just butting in here (totally uninvited, but relevant)....

...Sorry to be the bearer of 'bad' news - but, hey, acurate information is usually a good thing!...

...the brakes you have fitted are NOT a 'big upgrade' (usually referred to as the Vectra upgrade), but there is still an advantage to be had.....

Starting at the begining, the numbers stamped into the caliper (KBA 60298) suggest that they are OE fittment for an Astra 'F'/Nova GSi - see here....

These use then same disc as the elan - Apec Part number DSK518 (and other equivalents) - with a diameter of 256mm.

The Disks you have in the picture are some aftermarket drilled/grooved items, (designed for the Vauxhall, but equally at home on an Elan - or even a Daewoo Lanos), so they should run slightly cooler than solid ones (not that I'd expect to notice the difference).

The 'proper' Vectra Upgrade uses different calipers (as fitted to the V6 Vectra, not the lower models), with a larger disc (OE for a Subaru), and some extra mounting hardware.

The clues are:- The disc will have extra stud holes in it - they originally get used on a car with a 5-stud pattern, and need to be drilled for the Elans' 4-stud hubs.

It will also be larger in diameter (I believe that it uses something like 288mm, but that is only from my poor memory - I've never owned the kit (except for on my Vectra, I suppose).

The calipers need to be mounted further out from the hub to fit the bigger disc, and so a 'new' mounting bracket needs to be made up.

Anyway, enough of what you don't have - what about what you DO have.....

The ATE brakes were considered by GM to be better than the standard ones (otherwise why reserve them for the 'high end' models??) - and as such, *should* be better than standard Elan calipers...

This is for a few reasons - the pad position in the calliper is slightly further from the hub (disc is cleaner on the outer edge), so dynamic rotational physics dictate that for the same force at the brake pedal, there will be more force at the disk (everything else being equal)...

...the caliper uses a different brake pad - which has a slightly larger surface area in contact with the disc - so has to be better.

There is a much larger choice of brake pads availlable - all designed to stop a big, heavy Vauxhall (same pads on an Omega) from 155 mph, so should be good for an Elan).

It still has the Achilles heal of being a single-piston calliper, with sliders, but the good news is that the sliders on these callipers are less prone to seizing up...

Basically, it is an improvement (maybe not an upgrade), using easy to find parts which will make life a tad better.

If someone were to replicate the system today, it would cost about £50 for a pair of S/H calipers (which may need a rebuild), then a set of pads, then new discs.

So it could easily cost you well over £100 (depending on what you can find/do yourself) - for a small but maybe not worthwhile improvement (but every little helps ).

With other options available which are definate upgrades, I wouldn't bother.... (maybe one day, if/when I can no longer get pads i like for the OE Elan callipers)....

WOW

A mind of information - Mastermind anyone............"and your chosen subject?" - "the uprading of Brakes on the M100".................!!!

I am so frequently astounded at the knowledge of other users here, and their willingness to spend so much time sharing it with people like me. Dapinky, I salute you.

On my first Elan, I put a lot of effort into optimizing the original brakes: full refurb, Ferodo DS2500 front pads, green stuff rear pads, s/s flexible hoses & upgraded master cylinder. I was pretty happy with the results.

With the new Elan, the brakes feel a bit better. The pedal travel is longer, but they are more progressive. I wonder if the upgraded master cylinder or s/s hoses would make things even better. I don't know if the upgraded master cylinder has sufficient swept volume for use with the Astra calipers.

I'm not going to take the credit for all of the published knowledge - maybe I just have a prepensity to absorb bits of information submitted by others, and organise it into a story!

As you probably know, I'm one of the few who say that the OE callipers are good enough - provided you maintain them well, use good pads, good tyres, and maybe consider the rest of the system before 'junking' the iron bits (I've got the OE ones, re-built, new sliders, smaller diameter master cylinder, different rear proportioning valves and sticky tyres....) - I'm sure it may well have been cheaper (and far less stressful) to fit Hi-Specs - but I maintain that they are not always necessary.

I've not really looked into these callipers in great detail, so I am unaware of the caliper piston diameter (and therefore surface area).....

...but I shall rectify that over the next few days and return (before Magnus Magnusson asks that particular question).

Assuming that the area is of a suitable size, it is easy to work out how much fluid is needed to move the piustons , and therefore decide if the smaller master cylinder will still supply enough fluid to do the job (with an acceptable safety margin).

If i can find the exact surface area of the pads as well (other than drawing round them on graph paper!) I can calcu;ate/estimate the clamping/rotational forces applied by each calliper.....

In the words of Arnie, "I'll be back...."

Well, If only I could understand Russian, Polish or German, there's loads of info on the web.... but I can't!

What I have established is that the piston diameter is 52mm, which is the same as the OE calipers, so fluid diplacement should be the same....

...and everything I've read about pad surface area seems contradictory....

...BUT....

It all seems to agree that the larger the surface area of pad/disc contact, the more the heat *may* dissipate (and so eliminate/reduce fade).

Physics dictate that for a given pressure input, the force applied between brake pad and disc remains the same (but the wear will be less on a bigger pad due to that force being spread out).

The difference appears to be down to the distance between the centre of rotation (hub centre) and pad - which we already knew....

The pads in the ATE callipers are 155x52mm (but not rectangular), vs the OE ones at 100x59mm (info from here)...

..so, basically, I don't know

What I can say, is that the sliders are an improvement over the Lotus ones, the pad has a bigger area (by about 20%, accounting for the shapes), and the rest is down to individual perceptions!!!!

It may well be that these calipers will give a marked improvement (with or without a master cylinder swap) - but the main advantages would appear to be pad choice and slider improvement (which is possibly the biggest problem with the OE ones).

Suffice to say, that when i get round to it, I'll try and find/fit a set and see how I get on - it may be the cheap improvement we're all looking for, or it may just be the Emperors new clothes ...

...by the way, the "same" calliper is fitted to the 'smaller' Vectras (A/B) - but i can't say if they will mount to the same place on the Elan, or if an adaptation is needed.

Great stuff Dave. I posted up a theory a couple of months back that I might be able to use Mk3 Astra calipers (from a GSI model) as they are the same fitting as the ones that went onto the oldest mk2 Astra GTE 16V, later upgraded by the ATE types.

If that is the case, I already have a set on my mk2 Astra and will have to compare the markings. I've got to say, I much prefer the ATE calipers and as you say, they just don't seem to be probe to seizing unless the rubber dust seal fails and allows water into the piston bore. Unlike the Delco ones, which I have had a few go sticky.

Your size for Vectra stuff is spot on (288mm) and you might be aware that the Vauxhall folks were fitting 308mm discs off the late Omegas with caliper spacers, so presumably those might be an option for the Elan with a bit of work also.

Looking forward to seeing the progress on your new project Rusty - nice to see you getting stuck in. I'm currently messing about with seals, attempting to follow in Jamie's footsteps with Peugeot rubber sections around the door glass...

Ian.

I have mentioned that my winter set of 15" wheels fit, in spite of the brakes. I've now had them refurbished, and am very happy with how they look. I just need to order some wheel centres and screw them to the car. The colour is metallic anthracite 'over black' with satin lacquer from Spit & Polish.

Looks great Howard, just need some nice new centre caps. Love the colour.

Thanks. I know that people prefer S2 wheels to SE ones (I know that I do), probably because the SE ones look old fashioned and as if they are from a 1990 Astra. However, by changing them to a modern colour, I think it takes 10 years off them.

It will be good to have a completely different set of wheels on the car for a few months' each year.

A good afternoon's work done: I've now installed rubber A pillar seals and tightened up the hardtop. I shall need to order some sealant to stick down the ends next weekend, but that should be simple.

Jamie N wrote: just need some nice new centre caps

And some RUOTE stickers

Rambo wrote:And some RUOTE stickers

Are such stickers available?

really do like the colour and finish you've achieved - thanks for describing the "how to"

Rusty Wishbone wrote:

Rambo wrote:And some RUOTE stickers

Are such stickers available?

That would be here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23254

Rusty Wishbone wrote:I have mentioned that my winter set of 15" wheels fit, in spite of the brakes. I've now had them refurbished, and am very happy with how they look. I just need to order some wheel centres and screw them to the car. The colour is metallic anthracite 'over black' with satin lacquer from Spit & Polish.

Have you got any old wheel centres - My Lotus logo centre caps had faded to: 1) nothing, 2) a faint outline, 3) pale blue on cream and 4) faded original colours. I looked at replacing them and then decided to try something different - Cat on Skates logo from here appealed but looked a bit fussy with 'lotuselancentral.com' so reduced that to Lotus Elan and printed on photopaper and laminated it. Fixed with double sided tape but don't know how long they'll take to fade but expensive ones didn't last that long either and these didn't cost a lot to make...

What do you think? Can post a set on a sheet if you want.

Phil

Good effort Phil.

Phil,
They look great. However, I've already ordered a new set of wheel centres with the Lotus logo.

Winter tyres now bolted on with refurbished wheels. Some before & after photos below:

BEFORE:





AFTER: