IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Sat 15.10.2016, 17:37

See final post on the matter.
Last edited by Jeemy on Sat 15.10.2016, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 15.10.2016, 19:16

My response:
Hi John,

I am afraid I have to take issue with your posting. Perhaps you didn't read the posts I made properly, perhaps I didn't write them correctly as I have been leaping around trying to find a solution and/or explanation and have said at every stage these are just my thoughts.

To correct your massive misconstrusions:

1) I've never said that bearings DO vary, just that they COULD, between manufacturers. I'm just going to leave that one there as there are too many variables for any "argument" to be viable.

It would be pure bedlam if different manufacturers made same part number/same purpose bearing sets to different dimensions.

2) Why on God's earth would you assume, or imply on a public forum, that these massively expensive items, were manufactured by a "human who does not keep high tolerances high on the checklist". How, in fact, do you think I could have possible sourced such a ridiculous item? When in fact you know for certain due to our extensive private correspondence during the manufacturing process, that these are the exact same hubs, made by the exact same manufacturer, as they have always been?? How, in fact, on earth do you think these were made if not by CNC - with a hammer and chisel?!

I asked which method of manufacturing was employed to try to pinpoint where the failure was created. If human manufactured, then it would be difficult to get two to ever be exact to the 4th decimal place. If it was machine manufactured, then their equipment is faulty. A properly running CNC machine will make identical copies of a part all day long. I use CNC machine shops and hold them to the exact dimensions provided.

3) Yes, I will have a serious discussion with the manufacturer, WHEN THEY OPEN ON MONDAY. I have spent the bulk of my day on this and have, let me say it a 10th time, only speculated as to now, as to the issues.

4) My comment about a locking compound being used, was specifically noted as a possible, not a definite. Only an explanation as to why we/I might be left in this situation. Why the same hubs that were always produced, are suddenly showing a spinning race.....not my final guess, just an interim thought.

I don't know anyone in the automotive field that would consider a locking compound, glue or other "patch" to fix something as important and a bearing fitment.

5) Lets be clear. (1) Eddie and Christan are not two seperate people in different locations with the same problem, they are father and son. Eddie does the analysis and Christian drives the car. Its deliberately misleading to suggest that two people have been driving around "waiting for a solution" for "over a year" when I found out about this THIS MORNING (to use your capitals).

Not really my problem that you are never available to step up and resolve problems. It took you 6 months to get to saying you were sending a replacement hub only to sit on it over a week before actually shipping it. The email informing you of the newest issue went out on September 30. You only saw it TODAY? This is a major safety issue and you are asleep at the wheel. I purposely don't make any parts that could cause a serious accident and what I do sell are assembled and tested before I ship them.

6) What is the chance I can send them the good hub? Excellent. Why would you assume I would not do that? Why would you, who has had your share of hassle from group buys, and has not bought or seen a set of these hubs, but knows me personally and for a long time, assume the worst of me?

Because after TWO WEEKS neither Christian nor Eddie have heard from you regarding this.

7) Why would you insinuate that Eddie and Christian have had a refusal from me with regards to them receiving my own personal hubs, so that they should be able to FINALLY (caps again) "install the upgrade they paid for last year??". This implies I knew about this issue for months and only finally decided to deal with this today. Moreover, it implies that I have made a decision to refuse them the goods I have in stock. By your standards, this is something that should not be tolerated. Why should I be subject to this talk, but not you??

Eddie mailed me about 10 days ago, I've been waiting to hear from the manufacturer. This implies I would NOT send them my personal belongings to make good on this. Why would you make this insinuation??

I did not insinuate any such thing. You never responded to their most recent notice of a problem. When you responded the first time they contacted you, it was six months before you even started shipping the replacement. And that took a week to actually hit the shipper

8) Its an outright lie to say that I measured anything and said it was good. I was mid-moving premises and this was why the delay, and I told Eddie specifically that I had never had any ability or chance to measure the hubs - I wanted to, but eventually by the time I located them from our warehouse they just needed sent. At that stage, I had no idea this was anything more than a single issue.

This is from your email of May 6, 2016 telling Eddie that the manufacturer had authorized replacement: "I will need to check the existing stock carefully before sending to you."


9) Finally, if you think for a swear-word second I would come back and suggest "EVERYBODY GLUE THEIR RACES INTO THEIR MIS-MACHINED HUBS" then you need to get off your swear-word high horse. How did you like it when you were accused of ripping everybody off for seals that could be magically found from mass-production cars? You were more annoyed than I am right now, I know because I talked to you for four hours that night.

To clarify: I was highly upset that an ongoing and well advertised project costing an outlay of many thousands of dollars was undermined and expressed my feelings in a not so professional manor and was chastised for it. I was (in my opinion) justified that hours of design and concept work as well as the cost of the tooling became a write-off due to the other project that was constantly flogged as dangerous to health and "don't do this without proper protection" and finally, no longer being made. It is probable that had Wayne's project gone to completion, new, non-sponge rubber replacement rubber seals would be available for their cars. We will never know, but Wayne ate the entire engineering costs without a whimper.

Lets be clear to everybody involved here. Nobody has been waiting on a solution to this for years. Nobody knew about this until 10 days ago. I knew about it this morning. Nobody called me - despite my personal details having been posted here for years. John never called me - despite us having been in regular contact on Skype for years. I didn't visit the forum for 10 days, and I don't have any obligation to, or obligation to reveal why. So any intimation that I have been lax in my requirements is false. I have a publicly visible forum and a publicly registered company. You can call it, email it or chat to it any time you want. If you want to talk to me personally, that may take some days. I am not my company, and I sometimes need to sleep or look after my kids. I try to visit LEC daily, but thats not always possible.

When the first hub became an issue, I tried to call you (all of the phone numbers I had) and I tried Skype so we could discuss this privately, but you never answered.

I vehemently reject any suggestion that there has been any wrongdoing on my part.

Unfortunately, you are the person responsible for what has gone on. If you had responded in a timely fashion, the subsequent other defective hubs would have been discovered and EVERYONE would have waited a reasonable amount of time for results. It is apparent that your concept of "reasonable" is different from those who use their car and need to get results in less than 5 months.

I am furious that John, of all people (bearing in mind John, that you left this forum "forever" on the basis of criticism you received about group buys you organised) would indulge in such "witch-hunting" behaviour, would "stir the pot" in this way. When its upset you so much, why would you immediately 'revert to type' when you haven't even been involved in this one??

Jamie: We are discussing a defect that COULD be the cause of serious injury, serious car damage or even deaths. There is NO WITCH-HUNTING here. People that have installed the hubs did so based on their belief that your manufacturer would make correct parts every time and your bearing installation company actually knew something about installing bearings. A lot of buyers and DIY installers are not seasoned mechanics and have to trust the parts they buy that are advertised as FIT FOR PURPOSE are just that. Why didn't I buy a set of hubs from you? I already had a set of hubs from the Bob Brown sale and I never even considered that he would have screwed up the manufacture so never thought I should go behind him to double check the work. Eddie and Christian are adequately mechanically adept but know enough to ask when something doesn't seem right. They have purchased other parts from me and borrowed some parts for templates for things they wanted to get made themselves. They asked me why the outer race spun in the first set of hubs and that got me involved. I would be almost as responsible if someone got hurt because their bearing failed if I didn't suggest that Eddie and Christian make contact (quickly) and when they didn't receive a timely response, suggested they esculate it to LEC as I did not want to risk anyone getting hurt.

I don't know why you would try to insinuate that I do NOT want "to have a serious discussion with the manufacturer". I said specifically I have already asked once, and will ask again Monday when I can.

I don't know why you would try to insinuate that I do NOT want "to question the manufacturing process". I said specifically I wish to, and that I have measuredf it and find it lacking.

And when both you and Wayne have "left" this forum for your methods and motivations being questions in providing group buy work, I find it extremely aggravating that you would exhibit to me the same behaviour that has seemingly upset you so badly, within literally hours of a problem allegedly appearing with a product that I started supplying over 4 years back!!

I'll do whatever is right, rest assured of that. John, I am really bloody disappointed in your comments, insinuations and general attitude. Perhaps you could read the post fully or give me the benefit of the doubt, even for 24-48 hours, before shilling assumptions. I know you hate it when the same is done to you, which is why I am so shocked at what you have written.

Lets make a couple of facts massively clear to the readers:

1) Over 70 sets (to my knowledge, it can only be more) of these hubs have been produced and have been running for, let us say, 10 years?

2) Eddie and Christian have NOT been racing around on an unsafe hub - if in fact it is unsafe, they've been poking at it on a desk - they are at no risk of immediate injury. Only one other reported person has this issue. That hub is in a box.

So it is OK for them to pay for an item and after 6 months still be poking at it on their desk waiting for a proper resolution to a manufacturing failure?

3) While the interference fit is the intended usage, the failure of that fit (WHILE NOT IN ANY WAY GUARANTEEING IT TO BE SAFE) is not immediately life-threatening - as the friction forces involved intimate that the bearing will continue to spin, and the race will stay in place.

It is a good thing you are not a certified engineer because that statement could get your re-tested. The interference fit is critical to keeping the race in place and the bearing spinning inside the race, not with the race.

4) I've not deliberately sabotaged these hubs after 10 years of successful production to deliberately endanger LEC members.

5) A large amount of commenters are stating they pressed their own bearings, in their own garages, with zero training and qualifications, into these hubs. I am extremely upset that on a forum where we try to keep these cars on the road, the fact I used a reputable, proven, and previously-used manufacturer, to do something which a bundle of forum users have done with a blimming hammer, is calling my reputation into question. Especially from you, John. Really upset with you. Call me 24/7 because I want to have this out with you.

Your reputation? You are the seller of defective drive train components and are arguing it is "only a small problem"? Since nobody has access directly to the real manufacturer, then you become responsible by default. 24 hours after notification is all the time you should have needed to announce a warning suggesting everyone check their hubs but two weeks later, you finally pop in with a bunch of crap because you are not available due to more construction, moving and whatever other problems you are having. Peoples lives are involved. It isn't the same as a light bulb blowing out, a piece of trim falling off, or a body panel not fitting exactly right.

Get off your high horse and get the manufacturer involved. There are 4 known bad hubs, one installed saying they had to "pack" the hub to make things fit and numerous that haven't checked or didn't expect to have to check and just packed the bearings and are now driving very dangerous cars.

Savvy?

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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Sat 15.10.2016, 23:13

I appreciate your concern, John, and thank you for raising these points that many people may be equally worried about.

Of course I will investigate the issue with the manufacturer - as soon as humanly possible to do so (Monday GMT). I found out about the issue today in general terms but have received no complaint up til today, from any party save for Eddie, to whom I have already responded, to say to him it must be taken up by the manufacturers. So to imply any wrongdoing on my part is incorrect.

Had more than a single person reported this to me directly, I would have recalled every single one of these parts and at this stage I think that is the action to take. However we may wish to keep our cars on the road via some solution, so if you could give me til business hours Monday, so I can at least discuss this with the manufacturer that may serve us better.

When more information has been provided to me by the manufacturers I will update the Forum immediately as you must all be as curious as I, as to why these parts differ.

However I do not think its is right nor reasonable to allow conjecture, speculation and rumour to be in any way part of this investigation. I should not have provided any personal opinion and I withdraw it now, and will just deal with the facts.

First level safety restrictions dictates the importance of the parts' fit, not personal interpretation.

John, I apologise for any way I have criticised your character and I'm sure that you also do not wish to turn this in to a personal dispute, made public via this Forum. This is a serious issue and forum, so let's not take these discussions any more personally than we have done.

I am available as I have always been during UK business hours. Some issues may take longer than others to resolve but if you wish me to keep resolving issues here, I must take issue with libellous and slanderous comments made here. This includes the timescales being discussed and once again I want to state that when these long delays are mentioned, parts were shipped in many cases a matter of years back and I am only now being notified. As I simply organised this on our behalf, I cannot and should not be expected to provide immediate responses. If I am called in the middle of the night at home or work, I can't reasonably be expected to answer.

Anyone with any concerns, please contact me directly on: 07710778296, 01620 893 538, or 0800 084 3084 during UK Business Hours. I am sorry, I can't be available 24/7.

John, I welcome any more comments you may have re. this issue made to me directly. But I am sorry, I have had no contact from you on this matter at all up to now.

Once more, I state categorically that this purported 6 month delay does not rest with me entirely. The goods were shipped over a year ago,

Best wishes to all, Jamie.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby dapinky » Sun 16.10.2016, 10:38

Jamie,

Thank you for addressing this issue at the first oportunity with the manufacturer (business hours).

My involvement (whether it is considered 'sticking my nose into business which is not mine' or otherwise) was purely to gather as much information as possible, and to try to ascertain who may or may not have been affected. This was done as a result of a direct request from a member who had legitimate safety concerns.

I was initially contacted off-forum for some advice and to inform me of the issue.

It has become apparent that not all units are defective, and that some have been fitted, whilst others are 'awaiting fittment' - as is always the case with any such parts purchased as a 'group buy' - not everyone needs them straight away, but they are purchased when they become available to be used in the future. In a perfect world, all items would be 'stock', and such discrepancies in manufacture would be picked up early after supply - but in the real world, that can't happen.

My first thought was that it was necessary to ascertain the extent of the problem, which is why i sent a message to everyone who may or may not have purchased from this run of hubs (and there are some I have heard nothing back from, so it is not definative information) - it would have been remiss of me to do nothing when there is a known safety issue - it was done as a personal enterprise, NOT on behalf of LEC, as the purchases were made directly from yourself, with LEC merely providing an 'advertising platform' for want of a better expression.

As already stated, it is a manufacturing/safety issue, NOT a supply issue (that is something which is of no concern to me, as I wasn't being supplied anything!), and i feel that the 2 things should be looked at seperately. Clearly, if someone has an issue with shipping, then that is a matter between the parties concerned, and nowt to do with the possible safety use, and shouldn't have any impact on actions now to be taken.

No-one is suggesting that you have sent out known-to-be-defective parts, or that you are suggesting that they should be glued in - lets be clear on that. It is always the case that human nature will make us want to examine possible scenarios, but the fact are the only real concern.... but this doesn't stop conjecture.

Until there is a response from the manufacturer, my advice to anyone who has concerns is to 'hang tight' and see what happens - obviously, to fit a part that you know to be problematic isn't the right thing to do, and I appreciate that people have paid out money for something which may not be as expected.

It will not get resolved overnight, and throwing teddies out of prams may make people feel better, but will not actually change anything.

The facts remain that people purchased goods which were incorrect - the 'Consumers' made a purchase from a 'Trader' and those definitions are clear in the Consumer Rights Act 2015, along with the possible recourses - (but those laws cannot be applied retrospectively to orders made before enactment, so the previous legislation on 'Distance selling' may be applicable).

It would be for each person affected to consider their own course of action, but as you have already stated, you will be seeking to sort the matter out with the manufacturer - I don't believe that we can reasonably ask for any more than that at this stage.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Sun 16.10.2016, 11:23

Thank you Dave. I apologise for getting upset, I am under a lot of stress trying to get my new premises open and this is obviously not good news however you look at it. I rushed getting a response out and probably didn't type it correctly, but I wasn't pleased to be met with a personal attack, who would be.

Exactly the same as "purchasers" from me would be covered by any legislation, so would I be covered under the same legislation from the manufacturers.

Its now clear that for the known affected items, the tolerance is out by 2 thou - enough to cause the issue.

My ideal resolution (again, a hastily thought suggestion right now) is that I will have the manufacturers create new races and press them in for all who want to send them back to me for this service to be performed en masse. I can't say more until I speak with them.

If Rambo can provide the registration number of Rambo, can we find the owner that way?
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Simon_P » Sun 16.10.2016, 11:40

Well written Dave.
dapinky wrote:The facts remain that people purchased goods which were incorrect - the 'Consumers' made a purchase from a 'Trader' and those definitions are clear in the Consumer Rights Act 2015, along with the possible recourses - (but those laws cannot be applied retrospectively to orders made before enactment, so the previous legislation on 'Distance selling' may be applicable).

Previously covered by The Sale of Goods act - and the Warranty is likely to be 6 years. The contract is with the seller rather than the manufacturer, and the seller may repair or replace or refund within reasonable time.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Rambo » Sun 16.10.2016, 20:56

Jeemy wrote:If Rambo can provide the registration number of Rambo, can we find the owner that way?


H4 RMB

But my old car has been sold at least twice more since Simon Revill purchased it back in April this year :?
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Mon 17.10.2016, 12:38

Hi Guys,

I have spoken with the factory this morning and got the correct facts and info for you here. Please note I am doing some of this from memory so if anything is incorrect its not through any deliberate fault.

Here is where we are with the situation.

Firstly some facts:

  • All hubs are and have always been produced at the same factory, from the same drawings, by CAD, not hand
  • It appears Bob never had bearing races installed by the factory. They suggested doing so rather than letting them be installed by multiple sources.
  • I went with this situation and it has come back to haunt me, as some of the hubs appear to have bores oversized by 0.002" meaning the bearing race (outer) cannot obtain an interference fit. Rather than this issue then being discovered at the point of bearing installation, it means that if the bearing installation was not checked by me or the owner, or the mechanic/garage doing the fitment, the issue could go wholly unchecked.
  • Of course, it should have been checked by the factory manufacturing the hubs. See below for where we go with this.
  • New races is not the right resolution full stop

The right resolution is to make sure that every person who has a set of these hubs has checked them and if they are at all unsure that the fit is not correct, receives a replacement. Alternatively if unsure they can be returned to me a check and subsequent return for bulk return to the factory to be checked there. As I organised this as a Group Buy and not a retail buy, its hard for me to say right now how this affects the previous 3 Group Buys organised by Bob Brown, as I was neither organiser nor retailer. Nonetheless I think we should look at these and see if we can establish any issue there too.

Runs 1-3 of hubs produced under Bob Brown's control

Its my belief these were all correct, and bearing races were never installed, and that there were 3 runs of approx 10 each. The data should be here and I will contact each member who had a set to ensure they are aware of the potential issue.

Run 1 of Hubs produced under my control

It is assumed just now that there were no problems with this previous run. Nobody has come forward, I have hubs in stock here that are fine so an initial examination has been performed on 2 of the approx 10 sets made. I will contact each member who had a set to ensure they are aware of the potential issue. It doesn't really fall under the DVLA's rules for obtaining the name of the owner, but I have downloaded the forms to make a formal request for contact details of the owner of "Rambo". Unless anybody suggests otherwise I won't maintain a list on this.

Run 2 of Hubs produced under my control

The list for this will be maintained below. 12 sets were produced of which I retained 1. We know of the 24 hubs produced, of 5 confirmed with the issue, and 2 confirmed OK on a visual check.

johanvanboven - fitted by owner - no problems noted upon installation - will be rechecked.
LotusEnthusiast - awaiting reply
B_land - not yet fitted, but both hubs showing too much clearance.
Jon - fitted by garage - "packing" mentioned. Out of the country at present but will ask mechanic if he can recall what this referred to
Algirdas (2) - awaiting reply
ccb056 - originator of thread - 2 defective units received from 3 supplied.
sheprob - awaiting reply
Nick Holland - no information known on this customer - purchase made directly via SVS website.
ab2cv - fitted by garage - no problems mentioned by mechanic following installation - will be rechecked.
Paul Alexander - not yet fitted - appear fine at this time.

Resolution

For each individual hub that has the issue from my runs, a new hub will be produced free of charge. These will be checked by the manufacturer, checked again by me and a third party, before despatch to ensure they are fully in tolerance.

If it turns out this issue dates back to Bob Brown's runs too then we have something more serious on our hands. I don't believe this to be the case but will make every effort to investigate this and on behalf of the Forum I will try to resolve that issue also, should it exist.

I am sending back today the hubs in my possession from my run 1 & run 2 for them to be professionally examined and an explanation sought. At present no explanation can be provided from the manufacturer as to why this issue occurred but they have assured me that it will be put right. Producing just a couple is not economical to do so we will try to work with them to either establish whether a whole batch needs reproduced (unlikely at this time) or just a few; if its just a few, we'll establish how many.

Once we have a final run set up for how many replacements need to be made, we will combine this up with a new production run so anybody else who wants these parts can get them. I will work with Geoff and anybody else to try and get PNM compatibility established as its clear there is some issue either in the measurements of compatible discs, or Bob's original measurements, that means these plus an MDC266 disc or similar aren't PNM compatible where an original hub is. I have 4 original hubs and will have 1 remaining run 1 hub to get this work carried out on.

Personal Note

I am sorry that this issue has occurred and of course deeply shocked that anybody could be placed at risk as a result of my actions, or lack of action. When I organised getting these done I was simply doing it as a hobbyist. The first set of hubs came back fine to our knowledge, and everybody was pleased. I did not know or assume I should ever have to check the tolerances of a product that had already been produced 60-70 times over, and had the hub examined by my local engineering works who could not see any problems. I did not check the hubs individually as I assumed that a CNC produced item would be identical every time. For Run 2, I did not check the races before sending them out under this same presumption.

This matter has further been clouded by the fact that I am now due to my love for these cars, setting a full-time car restoration & modification firm. I've been trading online for around a year and so to newer members it might further appear that I did not take this matter seriously as a retailer/dealer when this was never the original intention. I feel that any parts supplied by me now or then regardless of the legal situation, should be treated exactly as if they were supplied as a retail buy, not a group buy. Just because I was not in the trade when this started, is no reason for me not to be aware of the ramifications.

I fully realise the gravity of this and as a link in the chain I should have prevented the matter going further by being aware of the issue. I am taking steps this morning to ensure that anything supplied by me in future that falls into a grey area where I have organised machining of parts to help keep these cars on the road, are supplied by me with warranty the same as if I supplied you a set of shock absorbers from a manufacturer who sold them to me with warranty. With the hubs, I presumed the manufacturer was already checked and approved and all I was doing was arranging a re-order. From now on and for every hub I've "sold" I will treat this as if it was ordered from my company under warranty.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby lotusflasherman » Mon 17.10.2016, 17:27

Sounds like you are making progress but I suggest you concentrate on 'your hubs' and don't get involved in Bob Brown's. I've got 2 sets, which I believe are BB's, 1 via DVB, the other bought from a new Elan owner who acquired them unused from the previous owner of his car. The chances of you ever tracing them through to me, or any other current 'BB hub user', is 'extremely remote' to say the least.

There seems a lot of bullshit about fitting bearings. It ain't rocket science and doesn't need "an aerospace chamber", and I say that as a 'Professional Engineer' and Member of the Institute of Engineering and Technology before you talk about untrained, unqualified people. (Post subsequently deleted but I saw it).

Lotus Service Notes Section DD.6 - Hub Bearings Para 3 says "Use a soft metal drift to knock out both the outboard bearing races from the hub. Cut outs are provided in the bearing recesses in the hub for this purpose". Para 7 says "..pressing the new race into the hub". This means,to anybody with an ounce of common sense, that the race is a 'mild interference fit'. A soft metal drift would deform if it was anything more, but 'drifting out' and 'pressing in' are key expressions.

It appears that 'the factory' suggested they should install the bearings, very sensible, as you would then provide the buyer with a complete unit, but it also gave the opportunity to check the correct interference at installation. Their failure to employ somebody who sees a race just 'slide into' the housing, no need to press it in, and does not think "That shouldn't happen, better check the dimensions" has meant a lot of flack has come your way. I do think 'the factory' owes you a full explanation of their process and how that was allowed to happen - if only to ensure it doesn't happen again.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Mon 17.10.2016, 17:46

Thanks Phil. Thats very useful information but I intend to be true to the spirit of the forum, not the letter of the law.

People's safety has been drawn in as a factor and all of these hubs were produced by the same company, the same way.

I have no answer (today) as to reasons why there would be a difference.

I am sorry if one of my deleted posts was relevant. Given the fact I am gonna take full responsibility for all of this, I deleted anything that could suggest I would not. I am happy to reinstate any comment you see relevant so it can be discussed. I can certainly qualify that any post I made about unqualified people installing these was simply to suggest that we need to be wary of it, and that this was the reason for choosing a 'factory' install in my runs, not to suggest that nobody present on LEC is neither qualified nor experienced. Of course this would be ridiculous and I would not suggest it.

The factory does indeed owe me an explanation,and I am confident they will provide one in reasonable time. Given they have "effed" up, I don't expect anything more than I have got - an admission of failure and a promise to replace each and every hub, and allow me to deal with the BB hubs the same as "mine".

The "aerospace chamber" was to do with the inner race & bearing, which were press-fitted and sealed at the factory, I think we need to examine those too. In fact, due to a typo, part of the delay is that this is what I thought Eddie was querying for a while due to misunderstanding.

Of course if they had the "chamber" available they would have used same to fit the outer race, but this is my recollection - I cannot produce the written correspondence right now.

If its a safety issue, I will not be comfortable until I make every effort to trace every issue of this product - whether commissioned by me, Bob, or your chosen third party.

I have to take the "flack" that has come my way from failure to prevent third parties from endangering us. I will continue to do so.

Thanks to everyone who has messaged me directly.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby ab2cv » Tue 18.10.2016, 14:46

Just had confirmation from my garage that the bearing races are slack on both sides and can be moved by finger. I guess that's another two faulty hubs to add to the list unfortunately.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Wed 19.10.2016, 15:32

johanvanboven - fitted by owner - no problems noted upon installation - will be rechecked.
LotusEnthusiast - as yet unfitted - will be checked at next opportunity
B_land - not yet fitted, but both hubs showing too much clearance. To be returned under warranty.
Jon - fitted by garage - "packing" mentioned. Out of the country at present but will ask mechanic if he can recall what this referred to
Algirdas (2) - awaiting reply
ccb056 - originator of thread - 2 defective units received from 3 supplied. to be returned under warranty.
sheprob - awaiting reply
Nick Holland - awaiting reply.
ab2cv - fitted by garage - appear slack - to be returned under warranty
Paul Alexander - not yet fitted - appear fine at this time.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Jeemy » Thu 24.11.2016, 17:31

johanvanboven - fitted by owner - no problems noted upon installation - will be rechecked. no further correspondence received.
LotusEnthusiast - as yet unfitted - will be checked at next opportunity. no further correspondence received.
B_land - hubs now returned to me and onward to manufacturers with Eddy's
Jon - fitted by garage - "packing" mentioned. Out of the country at present but will ask mechanic if he can recall what this referred to. no further correspondence received.
Algirdas (2) - awaiting reply. no further correspondence received, one chase made by me, one by Eddy/John C.
ccb056 - 1 hub in use and deemed satisfactory after some machine work, other returned to me to go to manufacturer, arrived today.
sheprob - awaiting reply. no further correspondence received.
Nick Holland - awaiting reply. no further correspondence received.
ab2cv - fitted by garage - appear slack - to be returned under warranty. no further correspondence received.
Paul Alexander - not yet fitted - appear fine at this time. no further correspondence received.

note i am having some problems with LEC PM system; anything with same subject is not sorted by sender. please correct me if I have any of this wrong.
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby ab2cv » Thu 24.11.2016, 20:06

Hi Jamie - apologies - my car is up on axle stands at the moment but I haven't found the time to strip the hubs off the car just yet (and the bitterly cold weather isn't helping either!). I'll contact you before I attempt to return them to you.

Thanks. Alan
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby sheprob » Tue 21.03.2017, 23:06

Hi,

Has anyone managed to contact Jamie. I have PM'd (twice) and phoned his number, but no response in regard to the faulty hubs.
There's no way I will fit these hubs if my wheels might disappear on a track day.
Jamie, please can you get back to me and possibly others, as I don't think it's worth taking the risk on such a safety critical part of the car.
My parts are still boxed and ready to be returned if need be. Will they go straight in the bin, or be modified?
Who should I send them to? Or do I bin them?

Rob
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby Rambo » Thu 23.03.2017, 17:23

sheprob wrote:Has anyone managed to contact Jamie. I have PM'd (twice) and phoned his number, but no response in regard to the faulty husb


Now where have heard that before :? Have you tried E mailing him at his work address ? Look under his profile for this

From a safety point of view you should get your hubs properly checked before fitting
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby B_land » Tue 18.04.2017, 20:57

sheprob wrote:Hi,

Has anyone managed to contact Jamie. I have PM'd (twice) and phoned his number, but no response in regard to the faulty hubs.
There's no way I will fit these hubs if my wheels might disappear on a track day.
Jamie, please can you get back to me and possibly others, as I don't think it's worth taking the risk on such a safety critical part of the car.
My parts are still boxed and ready to be returned if need be. Will they go straight in the bin, or be modified?
Who should I send them to? Or do I bin them?

Rob


My parts were returned November 2016 but have heard nothing since not even a stat report- total outlay £176 + £11 return postage. :?:
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Re: IMPORTANT SAFETY NOTICE - GROUP BUY REAR HUB

Postby johanvanboven » Sun 23.07.2017, 00:32

Hi Jeemy,

Sorry for the late check-up.

Only found one inner bearing loose fit.

Glued this one in with loctite, have full confidence in the repair. Have done this several times before. Please see the Loctite catalog for solutions.

Within 3 weeks I will be driving to the Elzas, about 1000 mls in 4 days and will check the hubs when back.

Nice stuff those new hub's. :D

BR,

Johan
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