I am afraid I have to take issue with your posting. Perhaps you didn't read the posts I made properly, perhaps I didn't write them correctly as I have been leaping around trying to find a solution and/or explanation and have said at every stage these are just my thoughts.
To correct your massive misconstrusions:
1) I've never said that bearings DO vary, just that they COULD, between manufacturers. I'm just going to leave that one there as there are too many variables for any "argument" to be viable.It would be pure bedlam if different manufacturers made same part number/same purpose bearing sets to different dimensions.
2) Why on God's earth would you assume, or imply on a public forum, that these massively expensive items, were manufactured by a "human who does not keep high tolerances high on the checklist". How, in fact, do you think I could have possible sourced such a ridiculous item? When in fact you know for certain due to our extensive private correspondence during the manufacturing process, that these are the exact same hubs, made by the exact same manufacturer, as they have always been?? How, in fact, on earth do you think these were made if not by CNC - with a hammer and chisel?!I asked which method of manufacturing was employed to try to pinpoint where the failure was created. If human manufactured, then it would be difficult to get two to ever be exact to the 4th decimal place. If it was machine manufactured, then their equipment is faulty. A properly running CNC machine will make identical copies of a part all day long. I use CNC machine shops and hold them to the exact dimensions provided.
3) Yes, I will have a serious discussion with the manufacturer, WHEN THEY OPEN ON MONDAY. I have spent the bulk of my day on this and have, let me say it a 10th time, only speculated as to now, as to the issues.
4) My comment about a locking compound being used, was specifically noted as a possible, not a definite. Only an explanation as to why we/I might be left in this situation. Why the same hubs that were always produced, are suddenly showing a spinning race.....not my final guess, just an interim thought.I don't know anyone in the automotive field that would consider a locking compound, glue or other "patch" to fix something as important and a bearing fitment.
5) Lets be clear. (1) Eddie and Christan are not two seperate people in different locations with the same problem, they are father and son. Eddie does the analysis and Christian drives the car. Its deliberately misleading to suggest that two people have been driving around "waiting for a solution" for "over a year" when I found out about this THIS MORNING (to use your capitals).Not really my problem that you are never available to step up and resolve problems. It took you 6 months to get to saying you were sending a replacement hub only to sit on it over a week before actually shipping it. The email informing you of the newest issue went out on September 30. You only saw it TODAY? This is a major safety issue and you are asleep at the wheel. I purposely don't make any parts that could cause a serious accident and what I do sell are assembled and tested before I ship them.
6) What is the chance I can send them the good hub? Excellent. Why would you assume I would not do that? Why would you, who has had your share of hassle from group buys, and has not bought or seen a set of these hubs, but knows me personally and for a long time, assume the worst of me?Because after TWO WEEKS neither Christian nor Eddie have heard from you regarding this.
7) Why would you insinuate that Eddie and Christian have had a refusal from me with regards to them receiving my own personal hubs, so that they should be able to FINALLY (caps again) "install the upgrade they paid for last year??". This implies I knew about this issue for months and only finally decided to deal with this today. Moreover, it implies that I have made a decision to refuse them the goods I have in stock. By your standards, this is something that should not be tolerated. Why should I be subject to this talk, but not you??
Eddie mailed me about 10 days ago, I've been waiting to hear from the manufacturer. This implies I would NOT send them my personal belongings to make good on this. Why would you make this insinuation??I did not insinuate any such thing. You never responded to their most recent notice of a problem. When you responded the first time they contacted you, it was six months before you even started shipping the replacement. And that took a week to actually hit the shipper
Its an outright lie to say that I measured anything and said it was good. I was mid-moving premises and this was why the delay, and I told Eddie specifically that I had never had any ability or chance to measure the hubs - I wanted to, but eventually by the time I located them from our warehouse they just needed sent. At that stage, I had no idea this was anything more than a single issue.This is from your email of May 6, 2016 telling Eddie that the manufacturer had authorized replacement: "I will need to check the existing stock carefully before sending to you."
9) Finally, if you think for a swear-word second I would come back and suggest "EVERYBODY GLUE THEIR RACES INTO THEIR MIS-MACHINED HUBS" then you need to get off your swear-word high horse. How did you like it when you were accused of ripping everybody off for seals that could be magically found from mass-production cars? You were more annoyed than I am right now, I know because I talked to you for four hours that night.To clarify: I was highly upset that an ongoing and well advertised project costing an outlay of many thousands of dollars was undermined and expressed my feelings in a not so professional manor and was chastised for it. I was (in my opinion) justified that hours of design and concept work as well as the cost of the tooling became a write-off due to the other project that was constantly flogged as dangerous to health and "don't do this without proper protection" and finally, no longer being made. It is probable that had Wayne's project gone to completion, new, non-sponge rubber replacement rubber seals would be available for their cars. We will never know, but Wayne ate the entire engineering costs without a whimper.
Lets be clear to everybody involved here. Nobody has been waiting on a solution to this for years. Nobody knew about this until 10 days ago. I knew about it this morning. Nobody called me - despite my personal details having been posted here for years. John never called me - despite us having been in regular contact on Skype for years. I didn't visit the forum for 10 days, and I don't have any obligation to, or obligation to reveal why. So any intimation that I have been lax in my requirements is false. I have a publicly visible forum and a publicly registered company. You can call it, email it or chat to it any time you want. If you want to talk to me personally, that may take some days. I am not my company, and I sometimes need to sleep or look after my kids. I try to visit LEC daily, but thats not always possible.When the first hub became an issue, I tried to call you (all of the phone numbers I had) and I tried Skype so we could discuss this privately, but you never answered.
I vehemently reject any suggestion that there has been any wrongdoing on my part. Unfortunately, you are the person responsible for what has gone on. If you had responded in a timely fashion, the subsequent other defective hubs would have been discovered and EVERYONE would have waited a reasonable amount of time for results. It is apparent that your concept of "reasonable" is different from those who use their car and need to get results in less than 5 months.
I am furious that John, of all people (bearing in mind John, that you left this forum "forever" on the basis of criticism you received about group buys you organised) would indulge in such "witch-hunting" behaviour, would "stir the pot" in this way. When its upset you so much, why would you immediately 'revert to type' when you haven't even been involved in this one??Jamie: We are discussing a defect that COULD be the cause of serious injury, serious car damage or even deaths. There is NO WITCH-HUNTING here. People that have installed the hubs did so based on their belief that your manufacturer would make correct parts every time and your bearing installation company actually knew something about installing bearings. A lot of buyers and DIY installers are not seasoned mechanics and have to trust the parts they buy that are advertised as FIT FOR PURPOSE are just that. Why didn't I buy a set of hubs from you? I already had a set of hubs from the Bob Brown sale and I never even considered that he would have screwed up the manufacture so never thought I should go behind him to double check the work. Eddie and Christian are adequately mechanically adept but know enough to ask when something doesn't seem right. They have purchased other parts from me and borrowed some parts for templates for things they wanted to get made themselves. They asked me why the outer race spun in the first set of hubs and that got me involved. I would be almost as responsible if someone got hurt because their bearing failed if I didn't suggest that Eddie and Christian make contact (quickly) and when they didn't receive a timely response, suggested they esculate it to LEC as I did not want to risk anyone getting hurt.
I don't know why you would try to insinuate that I do NOT want "to have a serious discussion with the manufacturer". I said specifically I have already asked once, and will ask again Monday when I can.
I don't know why you would try to insinuate that I do NOT want "to question the manufacturing process". I said specifically I wish to, and that I have measuredf it and find it lacking.
And when both you and Wayne have "left" this forum for your methods and motivations being questions in providing group buy work, I find it extremely aggravating that you would exhibit to me the same behaviour that has seemingly upset you so badly, within literally hours of a problem allegedly appearing with a product that I started supplying over 4 years back!!
I'll do whatever is right, rest assured of that. John, I am really bloody disappointed in your comments, insinuations and general attitude. Perhaps you could read the post fully or give me the benefit of the doubt, even for 24-48 hours, before shilling assumptions. I know you hate it when the same is done to you, which is why I am so shocked at what you have written.
Lets make a couple of facts massively clear to the readers:
1) Over 70 sets (to my knowledge, it can only be more) of these hubs have been produced and have been running for, let us say, 10 years?
2) Eddie and Christian have NOT been racing around on an unsafe hub - if in fact it is unsafe, they've been poking at it on a desk - they are at no risk of immediate injury. Only one other reported person has this issue. That hub is in a box.So it is OK for them to pay for an item and after 6 months still be poking at it on their desk waiting for a proper resolution to a manufacturing failure?
3) While the interference fit is the intended usage, the failure of that fit (WHILE NOT IN ANY WAY GUARANTEEING IT TO BE SAFE) is not immediately life-threatening - as the friction forces involved intimate that the bearing will continue to spin, and the race will stay in place.It is a good thing you are not a certified engineer because that statement could get your re-tested. The interference fit is critical to keeping the race in place and the bearing spinning inside the race, not with the race.
4) I've not deliberately sabotaged these hubs after 10 years of successful production to deliberately endanger LEC members.
5) A large amount of commenters are stating they pressed their own bearings, in their own garages, with zero training and qualifications, into these hubs. I am extremely upset that on a forum where we try to keep these cars on the road, the fact I used a reputable, proven, and previously-used manufacturer, to do something which a bundle of forum users have done with a blimming hammer, is calling my reputation into question. Especially from you, John. Really upset with you. Call me 24/7 because I want to have this out with you.Your reputation? You are the seller of defective drive train components and are arguing it is "only a small problem"? Since nobody has access directly to the real manufacturer, then you become responsible by default. 24 hours after notification is all the time you should have needed to announce a warning suggesting everyone check their hubs but two weeks later, you finally pop in with a bunch of crap because you are not available due to more construction, moving and whatever other problems you are having. Peoples lives are involved. It isn't the same as a light bulb blowing out, a piece of trim falling off, or a body panel not fitting exactly right.
Get off your high horse and get the manufacturer involved. There are 4 known bad hubs, one installed saying they had to "pack" the hub to make things fit and numerous that haven't checked or didn't expect to have to check and just packed the bearings and are now driving very dangerous cars.
Savvy?I do, do YOU?