Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group buy?

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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Jeemy » Wed 26.06.2013, 16:24

Only thing that concerns me is I know from the datasheet (at least I think I recall) that the LGM are definitely safety rated.

I think the bubble deck can certainly be made to work, fairings I would need to do a bit more research.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Elanlover » Wed 26.06.2013, 16:55

Jeemy wrote:Only thing that concerns me is I know from the datasheet (at least I think I recall) that the LGM are definitely safety rated.

I think the bubble deck can certainly be made to work, fairings I would need to do a bit more research.


The LGM rollover bars (which I and many others have) are NOT safety rated. Marie went out of her way to state that there's no guarantee of safety with them and they were built for cosmetic purposes only. However, its implied that, based on their construction and mounting, they will certainly aid in the event of a rollover and are better than nothing.

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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby theelanman » Wed 26.06.2013, 17:14

Jeemy wrote:Only thing that concerns me is I know from the datasheet (at least I think I recall) that the LGM are definitely safety rated.


I would have said that that was the other way round......Simons hoops went through his design program at work.....(he designed WRC cars at the time IIRC)
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Wed 26.06.2013, 18:30

It is inconceivable to me that any hoops could be certified for the Elan. The cost of getting the certification would be so high as to drive the hoop costs sky high.

When I started this group buy, I hadn't heard of the LGM ones. In fact, to this day, I have not seen either the LGM or the SPC/Kuching hoops in the metal. I have seen lots of impressed views of the SPC hoops, spoken at length to Simon, and spoken to others who know and have worked with Simon on the design of the hoops, and I am completely convinced that his design is engineered to a very high quality. So I am convinced that they are the best an Elan owner can get.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Elanlover » Wed 26.06.2013, 18:43

Rusty Wishbone wrote:It is inconceivable to me that any hoops could be certified for the Elan. The cost of getting the certification would be so high as to drive the hoop costs sky high.


That's very true. It takes someone who can analyse the body structure to determine the points on which to anchor the thing so it meets the standard and probably a donor car to test :shock: Unless sufficient paperwork has been submitted (not sure what's actually required for certification).

Rusty Wishbone wrote:When I started this group buy, I hadn't heard of the LGM ones. In fact, to this day, I have not seen either the LGM or the SPC/Kuching hoops in the metal. I have seen lots of impressed views of the SPC hoops, spoken at length to Simon, and spoken to others who know and have worked with Simon on the design of the hoops, and I am completely convinced that his design is engineered to a very high quality. So I am convinced that they are the best an Elan owner can get.


I think Simon's were designed more for safety, if I recall correctly, and that he did a fair bit of research into how and where it should be attached to the structure. Then he went about making them look pretty :-D His design looked fantastic on Nige's car when I saw it and they looked about as stock as you can get. A truly great job even if not certified to any safety standards.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby dapinky » Thu 27.06.2013, 21:48

I can confirm that neither design are 'certified' but I have the LGM ones and have studied the SPC ones at length.....

Both systems appear at first glance to be far more solid than the top of my head scraping along the tarmac.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Jeemy » Thu 27.06.2013, 22:20

I can't find the PDF I was sent, I never thought they were particularly 'certified' but was sure there were load ratings and things put at the front.

It was just when you said:

There is no warranty that they meet any particular standard, but they look like they are appropriately strong.


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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Thu 27.06.2013, 23:14

It is important that no one can later say that they should be compensated for any injury which was not prevented by the hoops.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby HJ2 » Fri 28.06.2013, 10:42

I am still interested for the lot, but have to wait & see what funding i have left after my wedding next week friday!
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby GoM100Go » Sun 07.07.2013, 00:38

As to the roll over protection concern I found this in the sales literature... Highlighted in blue. I have always been over the moon on the aggressive look the fairing and deck provide. I think the roll hoops are to help the already built in safe guards. Would it be possible to order the fairing and deck, it seems the overseas price prohibitive for roll hoops, not being specially designed to meet a certain standard that could be made by a local shop, but I know the fairings and deck would be impossible to recreate by a local shop.

http://gglotus.org/ggtech/m100-lcu-manual/m100lcu.htm


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roll.JPG
the windscreen bar as a safety device is built in.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sun 07.07.2013, 02:41

From what I have seen in pictures of wrecked cars, the windscreen frame is useless as a roll-over protector.

Several members can also attest to the lack of structure when they had accidents.

DO NOT expect the windscreen and frame to do anything except fold over and add to your problems.

BEST ADVICE: DO NOT roll your car!
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Peter_W » Sun 07.07.2013, 03:41

:agree:

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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Karl Martin » Sun 07.07.2013, 09:50

My sister is a nurse and a close friend a paramedic.....you really, really don't want to hear what they have to say about motorbikes, horses..... and convertible cars with no roll over protection.

IT IS SERIOUSLY SCARY STUFF. :shock:

As is that picture. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Take up free-fall parachuting and rock climbing.... statistically much safer than all of the above per percentage!

Incidentally, the MGF of the same era also made claims that the windscreen would act as roll protection in the event of an accident - it doesn't work either.
I think the criteria at the time, was that it was classed as 'safe' if the screen could support the static weight of the car, which bears no reality to the dynamic/kinetic events which take place in a real world accident.

Which brings me to the next questions, probably asked in other threads, but still worth asking again.

Can you access the battery with theses roll bars....they seem to obstruct the access panel on the pictures I have seen and how easy is it to repair the roof with them in the way ( didn't the M100 hood specialists refuse to deal with a car, fitted with theses bars, because of obstruction problems?)
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby trig » Sun 07.07.2013, 10:23

Karl Martin wrote:My sister is a nurse and a close friend a paramedic.....you really, really don't want to hear what they have to say about motorbikes, horses..... and convertible cars with no roll over protection.

IT IS SERIOUSLY SCARY STUFF. :shock:

As is that picture. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Take up free-fall parachuting and rock climbing.... statistically much safer than all of the above per percentage!

Incidentally, the MGF of the same era also made claims that the windscreen would act as roll protection in the event of an accident - it doesn't work either.
I think the criteria at the time, was that it was classed as 'safe' if the screen could support the static weight of the car, which bears no reality to the dynamic/kinetic events which take place in a real world accident.

Which brings me to the next questions, probably asked in other threads, but still worth asking again.

Can you access the battery with theses roll bars....they seem to obstruct the access panel on the pictures I have seen and how easy is it to repair the roof with them in the way ( didn't the M100 hood specialists refuse to deal with a car, fitted with theses bars, because of obstruction problems?)



Battery is accessible with the hoops fitted but the fuel filter is a little harder to get too so fit a new one prior to fitting is best bet , can't see what problems the hoops would make to hood repair ? I completely removed my hood with frame to install hoops and then refitted after

One main reason I fitted Simon hoops was after a visit to a local scrapyard to pick up a rear bumper from a NMY Elan of the same year and colour as mine, the Elan being broken did not look too badly damaged but the guy at the yard told me the owner was killed when the car rolled on him :( this made me go cold and helped me convince my wife the Roll hoops were a must have
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Elanlover » Sun 07.07.2013, 14:50

FYI, I have one of Simon's tonneau covers (rear deck) with the "bumps" that I purchased a few years ago (for a pet project) but never got around to modifying or installing and likely never will. Given I'm in Canada the cost to ship to the US will likely be far less than from the UK. The cover is in good shape but does have a few chips out of the Gelcoat but nothing that can't be fixed prior to spraying anyway.

Anyone interested?
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby Rusty Wishbone » Sun 07.07.2013, 23:48

I'm delighted that so many of you see the sense of hoops. When I bought my Elan, my wife asked what would protect me in the event of rolling over. We both agreed that it would be better if I get roll over protection before putting the car into daily use (I haven't shown her the various unpleasant pictures posted of rolled Elans). I hoped that finding 9 like minded Elan owners who care about their own safety enough to commit to buying would not take long, but it has. I am beginning to think that my self-made hard-top project will be complete first.

Is anyone ready to commit to paying 40% of the total cost of a set of hoops now? I suspect that this will be the last ever run of hoops because of the difficulty of getting enough people to commit. It is really only economic if at least 10 are made together.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby cliff » Mon 08.07.2013, 04:48

OK, time to get off the fence, I am up for the hoops only. Are we starting a new list or going with the tentative ones from earlier posts?

Let me know where to transfer the 40%.
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby HJ2 » Mon 08.07.2013, 07:42

Same here, so that's 3 8)
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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby GoM100Go » Wed 10.07.2013, 04:15

Elanlover,

You have a PM! :poke:

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Re: Roll-over Hoops - Who would like to be part of a group b

Postby GoM100Go » Thu 11.07.2013, 05:31

Just doing some research as to the cost of a comparable part for a comparable car. The Honda S2000 roll hoops go for about £34.00 per pair, and that's metal hoops and the plastic fairings that cover the hoops. Is it possible that like the rest of our car these (group buy) hoops have been "over engineered" as well? The group hoops seem like a wild web of bars that shoot everywhere throughout the Lotus as opposed to hondas 2 bar system where one side bolts to the seat belt tower the other shoots back behind into the storage well. The roll over hoops have a simple task of holding the car up from crushing us. Hondas simple bars are designed to hold up a car that weighs 1,299 kg (2,864 lb) compared the the complex hoops for our car weighing just 997 kg (2,198 lb) (NA) 1,075–1,110 kg (2,370–2,447 lb-Turbo) in comparison. Studying the photos of the flipped over Élans you will notice that the seat belt towers/braces did not crush. A design that simply bolts to the seat belt towers would suffice, as they do for the Honda. I will try to talk to a local shop about the possibility of a simpler hoop... Even modifying a honda set for the lotus? I have included 2 listings as evidence.

Complete with fairings:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290926215522? ... 1423.l2649

Without fairings:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330953041589? ... 1423.l2649

Also for those wondering what seat belt towers I am speaking about scroll down the page linked below to the structural diagram that shows the seat belt towers and a bar that connects them together behind the seats I speak about, they are under the plastic pieces directly behind our seats. I wonder why there are (as in the group buy hoops) bars that even go behind these towers if behind them is all fiberglass? Those same towers lead to the jacking points under the car, very strong towers I would say...

http://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/m100-lcu- ... manual.htm

Mmmmm, research.

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