Engine rebuild project following blown piston

[DeeAitch]

Can someone please check something for me? The oil seperator bracket has another bracket afixed to it, to allow a p-clip to be secured. Question is, what does this p-clip secure? I dont seem to have any pics of this I'm guessing it holds the wiring loom in place, but could be wrong

It's for one of those 4 way clips that keep your plug leads tidy

[Enright]

The only tiny fly in the ointment is the exhaust manifold.

Neil, is this more like it?

Yeah baby, that rocks!!!

[paulwatkins]

Good news: Finished the re-build work yesterday!!! (pics to follow). I have retraced all 125+ notes that I made whilst taking it apart, crossing them off as I go!

I am very pleased with the outcome of this project. It is an acheivement that I am really proud of

Bad news: Upon filling up the coolant I noticed a leak from the electric coolant pump. It turns out that one of the screws fixing the plastic 'wet end' on to the unit had corroded through and so was not compressing on the small rubber gasket allowing coolant past at this point.

I have taken it apart but I am left with a small stub where one of the fixings was. I couldnt budge it with a pliers

I will let this soak in release fluid for a couple of days, then try again. If this fails I have 2 options.
1. Drill it out on a milling machine.
2. Heat the stub with a soldering iron, with the intention of melting the plastic directly in contact with the thread, and pull it free.

I was intent on drilling all the threads out anyway, and using a s/s nut and bolt for a tighter fit. The original screws looked very poor quality. With a bit of luck this fix will work, and I wont have to buy a new pump!

Got to tighten-up the under engine longeron tonight then i can take the car off the axle stands.

[Enright]

Wow, huge progress then.
Bit of a shame about that pump - how frustrating.
Does that mean that you couldn't start it because of the leak, or was it only peeing out when under pressure?

As a temporary fix, while you listen for noises and things (believe me this is where you start to imagine all sorts of nasties - you won't dare use the radio for a month! ), could you bypass it with a bit of pipe? That would at least allow you the final victory of getting the engine started and running without it.

[paulwatkins]

Costs I've incurred to date

1. Local mechanic to carry out compression tests and inspect problem - £35
2. Test 4 fuel injectors and service - £70.50
3. 1st home visit by engineers to try honing no2 cylinder - £88.12
4. 2nd home visit by engineers to re-bore all 4 cylinders - £150.70
5. SJ Sports - £91.40 - Made-up head gasket replacement kit, oil filter
6. SJ Sports - £393.82 - +0.5mm oversize pistons, piston rings, various studs and nuts for turbo/exhaust area, various gaskets required for plenum, injector housing, throttle body, thermostat etc.
7. SJ Sports - £11.80 - Plenum spigot/filter RHS
8. SJ Sports - £36.70 - Exhaust timing pulley
9. kmckmc - £65 - head set (which includes valve stem seals. wish I'd seen this before buying the other gaskets from SJ's, but may be able to sell on some of the duplicate gaskets to claw some money back, or keep as spares)
10. Peco exhaust - £250
11. Samco hose kit (including 'additional' hose) - £195
12. camskill.co.uk - £47.67(inc £8 p&p) - 2 x 1L bottles of Redline MT90 and 1 x 355ml bottle of Redline Water Wetter.
13. Doc Fizzix - $60US (inc p&p) - new HT lead set.
14. Mid America Motorworks - exhaust manifold dressing - £? cant remember off hand.
15. Nuts and Bolts(Weston) - stainless steel jubilee clips and various fasteners - £? on-going purchases.
16. probike.co.uk - £47.00(inc £7 p&p) - Optimate III battery charger.
17. europaspares.com - £12.28(inc £2.50 p&p) - Clear side repeater lenses and lamps.
18. Halfords - £15.99 - 5 lt antifreeze
19. Halfords - £19.95 - Thermostat and 2 x 2L Castrol Dexron III pas fluid
20. Halfords - £36.99 - Fully synthetic engine oil
21. B&Q - £11.98 - Grinding stones
22. Mill Auto Supplies, Weston - £9.78 - VHT spray paint and copper grease.
23. Motor Parts, Weston - £42.00 - Gasket silicone and numerous lengths of different diameter fuel hoses.

I know that some of these items were not essential to the re-build project, but I thought they would be beneficial to the overall look, preservation and running of the car when completed ie peco exhaust, samco hose kit, manifold dressing, etc etc
_________________
1991 Norfolk Mustard Elan SE - Injured at the moment! But getting better! Slowly.....very, very slowly

[paulwatkins]

Well, here's some pics of the finished article!

ps. some good news. I managed to get that stub out of the electric coolant pump. I will get some s/s nuts and bolts tomorrow and will refit it on wednesday. The filling of the cooling system can commence again!

[Enright]

That looks awesome.

Spotless as far as I can see (including some particularly tricky bits like the throttle body - I still can't work out how you managed that).

But does it run, or are you holding off pending proper coolant?

And what is your plan with regard to running-in?

[paulwatkins]

That looks awesome.

Spotless as far as I can see (including some particularly tricky bits like the throttle body - I still can't work out how you managed that).

But does it run, or are you holding off pending proper coolant?

And what is your plan with regard to running-in?

Cheers Neil me ole mate!
To answer your questions:
1. I took the throttle body off the plenum and spent hours getting into every nook and cranny with wd40 and any pointy implement that would do the job!
2. Haven't started it yet. The battery is on charge and the coolant pump should be fitted on wednesday. I then need to fill up the coolant.......then maybe give it a go!
3. The engineering company who did the rebore work advised me to run the car for 500 miles, not going over 3000 rpm. After that, drop the oil out, change the filter and pour in new oil. BTW, they also gave me 'running-in' oil which is what is in there at the mo. Dont ask me what the difference is though!

I am open to any advice you guys can give regarding this though

Paul

[isuzuimark]

I know that this is contrary to what your shop said , but I'm gunna say it anyways. After reringing/boring and fitting new pistons use conventional oil. start your engine and look for leaks untill the rad fan kicks in. Then when you take it for it very first drive go through the gears up then down at 1/4- 1/3 throttle. Go home and check for leaks. then go out again and do some full throttle runs up to 6000 rpm. I know it sounds crazy but there is a reason behind it. The OLD saying that you should go easy on a motor came about in the dark old days when manufacturing was not even close to what it is today, or 15 years ago. As a result tolerances are much tighter.
As for breaking in rings there is no reason to go easy on them at all. what you are doing when you brake in your rings are smoothing out the peaks from the honing by rubbing the rings up and down it with high heat and pressure. Pressure being the key thing here. Combuston gas goes down the skirt of the piston and into the ring land, pushing the ring into the cylinder wall. what happens is as it smooths the peaks out it glazes the ring making it hard. if you seat the rings without sufficient pressure from combustion the rings will not wear properly and then become hard before they get a chance to wear properly. Engine braking also helps aswell as varying your engine speed. This is seating rings. Also I would change the oil out after these two drives to remove the assembly lube from the oil.

do a Google search for motoman. Hes a motorcycle guy but the idea is still the same. I have broken in motors from isuzu and yamaha this way and both times had great even compression.

[Doug]

that is one hot blonde

how's the rest of her look??

agree that there are 2 camps for running in an engine. be careful and you should be fine either way.

you know you can start it without the coolant full - just don't run it to long.

Nitro would be proud of your elbow grease and hard work!!

[Doc Fizzix]

I know that this is contrary to what your shop said , but I'm gunna say it anyways. After reringing/boring and fitting new pistons use conventional oil. start your engine and look for leaks untill the rad fan kicks in. Then when you take it for it very first drive go through the gears up then down at 1/4- 1/3 throttle. Go home and check for leaks. then go out again and do some full throttle runs up to 6000 rpm. I know it sounds crazy but there is a reason behind it. The OLD saying that you should go easy on a motor came about in the dark old days when manufacturing was not even close to what it is today, or 15 years ago. As a result tolerances are much tighter.
As for breaking in rings there is no reason to go easy on them at all. what you are doing when you brake in your rings are smoothing out the peaks from the honing by rubbing the rings up and down it with high heat and pressure. Pressure being the key thing here. Combuston gas goes down the skirt of the piston and into the ring land, pushing the ring into the cylinder wall. what happens is as it smooths the peaks out it glazes the ring making it hard. if you seat the rings without sufficient pressure from combustion the rings will not wear properly and then become hard before they get a chance to wear properly. Engine braking also helps aswell as varying your engine speed. This is seating rings. Also I would change the oil out after these two drives to remove the assembly lube from the oil.

do a Google search for motoman. Hes a motorcycle guy but the idea is still the same. I have broken in motors from isuzu and yamaha this way and both times had great even compression.

For what it is worth, this is almost word-for-word what my tech said to me with my rebuild. He told me to "run her hard and find lots of hill so I could get on the boost and really seat the rings". This was not what I had been told in the past but I did what he said and the car ran great and the rings seated very well. Also, at first I had Mobil One in the motor and when my tech found out he made me go home and drain it out, then we put in straight 30 weight. After the rings had seated (500 miles) I drained the "brake-in" oil and put my Mobil One back in (5-30 weight)

[Doug]

Also, at first I had Mobil One in the motor and when my tech found out he made me go home and drain it out, then we put in straight 30 weight. After the rings had seated (500 miles) I drained the "brake-in" oil and put my Mobil One back in (5-30 weight)

I assume that is why he was given some "dino oil" to use for break-in.

[paulwatkins]

Thanks for the advice isuzuimark.

Here is a link to the MotoMan write-up on running in an engine. It certainly makes interesting reading!

Guess, I'd better get another spare oil filter and jug of oil for my 20 mile oil change!

[Andy C]

Really, REALLY nice looking job

I have followed this thread with interest for the last six months and am impressed & inspired by the results.

Not a mechanical expert, and not expecting to carry out the repairs myself

[Ekapol]

That's one fabulous looking engine bay. Completely neat and clean.

[paulwatkins]

Fixed the coolant pump tuesday night and refitted it last night. I was very happy with the repair I made...it is now much sturdier than previous method.

Refitted it into the car and topped up the coolant level.

Refitted the battery and started the pas refilling procedure as prescribed in the servce manual, by turning the engine over (with the inertia switch tripped) and turning lock to lock. The method works fine - air bubbles can be seen rising in the reservoir. You just have to be careful that the level is kept topped up to prevent air being dragged into the system.

Only downside to the night, was that the battery gave up on me after about 15 - 20 minutes, and I still need to complete this procedure.

Upside of the night was that the engine seemed to turn over ok. No nasty noises or leaks (except from the oil supply pipe on the top of the turbo. I hadnt tightened it up ) But apart from that all was ok.

I have to admit that my heart was in my mouth the first time I turned the engine over! What a buzz, man!

The battery is back on charge and should be ready for my next installment on friday. I plan to run the engine on saturday. I am going to do the running-in as prescribed in the previous link (fully load the rings) and change the oil after the first 20 miles.

Will the timing need to be checked prior to the first outing? I've ordered a timing light to do it myself.....that will be a first too!

[Enright]

Damn - I'm going to miss the grand start-up due to going on holiday tomorrow!

If that's the only untightened bolt then you've done absolutely fine.
And at least it was a nice obvious one without any nasty consequences!
It's even worse when you end up with the proverbial jam jar full of "spares" and can't work out for the life of you where they came from!

Erm, talking of nasty consequences, running an engine with the timing too far advanced can hole pistons within minutes as the mixture burns far hotter than is necessary.

OK so the Elan has a knock sensor, but it's a backup that you don't really want to have to be relying on.

So in short I'd recommend that when you get it started, you check that your timing is right when it's just got through it's warm-up phase, and definitely before taking it out for a thrash.

[algirdas]

Dear Neil:

Has that been your experience with ignition timing? I agree with you that having the timing too far advanced can cause serious damage to the motor, but my experience has been that it happens over thousands of miles and not in a matter of minutes. Is this one of those "subtle" differences between a turbo-ed engine and a normally aspirated one of which I am ignorant? For the life of me, I cannot see the basis for a difference. Just curious.

Sincerely,

Algirdas

[Enright]

Al,

I have to admit that it's not been my experience, but it's certainly what I've read as a warning.
And I tend to heed those sorts of warning!

It's just that if someone were asking advice, then I'd definitely err on the side of caution.

Especially in Paul's particular case when so much time and effort has been put into getting to this point. Who knows how much of a contributory factor dodgy timing could have been in causing the initial problem? Maybe none, but as I say, better safe than sorry.

In theory a turbo could only exacerbate the problem of a badly timed car, as more air is already being forced in which buggers up the mixture (if it doesn't get the appropriate ratio of fuel).

Seeing as the Elan relies on accurate base timing against which to make all it's calculations/adjustments, it's a judgement call...

Do you:
(a) Set the timing while it's running-in without thrashing it, so risking the rings not bedding-in quite as well as they could, or
(b) Take it out for a thrash to bed the rings in properly, while running the risk of pinking due to cr@p timing damaging your nice new pistons?
Personally, I'd choose (a).

[isuzuimark]

you should 100% warm up your engine and set the base timing before you drive it.
having the timing to far advanced causes knock/preignition. In theroy under load it could take one rotation of the crank to hole a piston. But most likely not. You can audibly hear knock if you are driving next to a wall or a divider with the window open. PING PING CLANG CRUNCH