How Far Would You Go?

[Kuching]

Picking up on a discussion from Lotusgirlmarie's carbon undertray thread; It would be interesting to find out views on developing our cars.

Do we have a duty to preserve them as far as possible in the state they left the factory.

Are modifications acceptable as long as the original parts could be refitted, such as the Wilwood brake kit or the ESM chip.

Are there no limits to how far you would like to see the Elan developed. This then raises further questions such as, at what point in development does it cease to be an Elan. If development was unrestrained, what direction would you like to see it go? An out-and-out performance track car , a more refined grand touring car , an eco-friendly hybrid car :gray: ?

[stevieshag]

Its been a whie since i been asked how far i will go. My answer is normally all the way.

Well my answer to this predicament is, in the club at the mo we have a diverse bunch, some like to develope, some like to restore, some like to keep original, which personally i think it great!!
If we were all the same & ie all developed then we would lose the heritage of the Elan, but we would have a faster better looking better handling car, if we were all restorers then we would have no donors to keep them on the road. I think we have the perfect balance in the Elan, enough owners doing projects, enough doing restorations, enough keeping original. & i think that is enough from me.

I purchased mine beause of its looks handling & heritage.
Its an everyday classic which would fulfill all the options in your posting.

stevie

[Monty]

Think it all comes down to money at the end off the day, i wouldn`t mined an undertray to stop the the crap and stones getting to the prongeron and engine bay when i`m doing trackdays + keep the air flow under the car stream lined. On LGM thread sound more like they were talking of a front splitter like the one on the Elise.

[chris.t]

Think it all comes down to money at the end off the day, i wouldn't mined an undertray to stop the the crap and stones getting to the prongeron and engine bay when i'm doing trasckdays + keep the air flow under the car stream lined. On LGM thread sound more like they were talking of a front splitter like the one on the Elise.

you'd get all the gravel caught over the tray when you go into the traps then monty

[John_W]

Stevie,

Your eloquence brought a tear to my eye. "Hear! Hear!" I say.

Then as I wafted along on your uplifting cloud of LEC erudition to the next post , Monty brought me down to earth:

... i wouldn't mined an undertray to stop the the crap and stones getting to the prongeron and engine bay ...

Ah well.

I'm happy to accept modifications. As to what I want:
1) About another 3" in the wheelbase (but I won't get it)
2) Better soundproofing (I should be able to do that one if I wasn't so lazy)
3) a more "straight-legged driving position" (see 1 above)

Other than that lot, I just want a continuing supply of parts, and the opportunity to keep making it a better car.

I bought my Elan as a good compromise to be a car I can drive everyday, can take lots of luggage or B&Q stuff in the boot, can get over the himalayan speed bumps and potholes in the roads, yet is still fun and doesn't cost a fortune.

I think the Elan suits me quite well, and there's enough going on with people developing new bits to keep me interested. There's also a nice bunch of supportive people on LEC, and Doug's efforts in founding the site (and Sy, Tony Liz & others in keeping it going) are big reasons why I still own my Elan.

I agree with Stevie.

John

[Ekapol]

I like to keep things original, at the same time I'm open for bits and pieces that would make it a better Elan.

On LEC, we often see thumb down from people when there is a posted picture of Elan with crazy wings/spoilers, etc.

Mr. Bond's Lotus is still a Lotus, even with missiles, etc. Make it go under water and people clap hands for it

[Kuching]

Some great comments there,

What if we were to consider taking modifications to the extreme, maybe replacing the glass-fibre panels for carbon fibre; replacing the backbone chassis for a lightweight tubular structure; replacing the suspension for a bespoke track setup. Would it now still be an Elan or has its raison d'être been lost along the way.

[surfboardfiller]

Some great comments there,

What if we were to consider taking modifications to the extreme, maybe replacing the glass-fibre panels for carbon fibre; replacing the backbone chassis for a lightweight tubular structure; replacing the suspension for a bespoke track setup. Would it now still be an Elan or has its raison d'être been lost along the way.

It would then be a Kutching super machine based on the Lotus Elan! or Hybrid in the sprit of racing, this is Lotus Heritage is it not? and are we not aspiring to the perfect machine?

Rebuilding the chassis is undermining what makes it a Lotus Elan (production car), but very much in the spirit of what Lotus are. Personally I have a BRG Elan which is as close to the forecourt model as possible (apart from the Bosch Ariel ) and a project car rescued from the scrapper (insurance write off) which will be the platform for my creative expression. I say go for it while I will always admire the restored original beauty.

Cheers,

Phil

[Benmac]

Each to their own to some extent but for somehing rare like the Elan there has to be an element of preserving the car as an Elan. For me that doesn' necessarily mean that they cannot be modified, even to a great extent is more the type of modifications. Work maybe to make the car track optimised or for example Shark is great as the cars are still Elans just optimised for a specific goal. What I don't like personally is a random approach and 'modification for the sake of it. Mainly I mean nailing masses of plastic tat to the outside or inside. Its bad enough on a mass produced hatchback but something such as an Elan?

For my car it will be things that improve but don't change the car that will be the oder of the day. As such a retrimmed interior in a non standard but subtle trim spec might be on the cards and if I ever get as far as rebuilding the engine then the result will be more power through using fancier bits but that would be as much to increase the strength of the finsihed article as to get the extra power itself.

[F1 LOTUS]

You could go this far...
KTM Builds a Car - The KTM X-Bow

...What do you get? You get a carbon fiber monocoque chassis driven by an Audi supplied turbo 4 cylinder with an output of 220 hp in the basic version, a 300 hp version will be available. The entire car weighs just 1540 pounds which means acceleration will be brisk, 0-60 comfortably under 4 seconds.

Through a new construction and production process, the development partners have created a method of mass producing the technology far more cost-efficiently than previously, cutting the traditional price from US$500,000 plus to less than US$100,000.


http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/02/12/ktm-builds-a-car-the-ktm-x-bow/#more-1342
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6816/

[Doug]

nice car; nice colour!

[lotusgirlmarie]

Now thats alittle extreme!!

I think we can all agree that we got the cars because of looks, performance and heritage. Personally, I would like to see a couple of "upgrades" to the suspension and to the powerplant as to keep the car in league with the more modern cars on the road. On the suspension front, maybe some stronger/lighter tubular A arms that are still in the factory fittings.

ESM is bang on for the chip upgrade. In addition or in lieu of it would be a garret turbo upgrade with ball bearings. Better power and more longevity. The exhaust front is already handled and there have been several intercooler upgrades done.

Bodywork...... Its just a personal thing but I wouldn't change much. Where my car is now is about as far as I would go. I've already built my carbon toneau and both front fenders. Maybe an engine cover with the vent I installed would be good. I've already done the Esprit front splitter (hence my inquiry into a front undertray) and of course...taillights. Just enough to modernize the car without going overboard. Sadly enough I used the Esprit for my inspiration and tried to develope the Elan accortingly.

So, what do you think? Carbon panels, standardized turbo upgrade, new unfoulable suspension? Would it be feasable to do it on a moderate (10-20 cars) scale?

[Kuching]

[quote="F1 LOTUS"]You could go this far...
KTM Builds a Car - The KTM X-Bow



quote]

Nice, but I can't see this being a big seller in Cumbria! But I suspect you're being a bit facetious here Brian .

For me, the essential qualities of the Elan are a) The styling; b) The handling/performance; c) The practicality of being able to run it everyday without spending stupid money.

The modifications that I have in mind wouldn't change the fundamental styling. Maybe add aerodynamic features such as a front splitter and get some downforce out of the rear wing. But I wouldn't presume to try and improve on Peter's (Stevens) work.

As for improving the handling and performance, surely having more of a good thing can only make it more Elan-like, not less.

However, maybe I could be criticised for making it less of a practical everyday car, but I think I can live with that considering the other option would be to spend $100,000

[F1 LOTUS]

No good out here in SoCal either - no AC

I agree with your comments above
So, in terms of 'bang for the buck' (that's not an offer! ), as a performance upgrade, what do you think should be on our wish list next? - [assuming we've already got a Mountain Chip, given the exhaust system a good seeing-to, and ensured our brakes are up to snuff]

[surfboardfiller]

I'd rather drive a LOTUS but I'd give an Atom a go!

[Kuching]

To be honest, as a road car I don't think the Elan wants or needs much more, especially now Allan's chip allows it to keep pace with far more exotic machinery and the brake upgrade gives it the stopping power to match.

This is why my thoughts of development are drifting towards a track orientated car. Driving on public roads is becoming increasingly less enjoyable with ever more congestion and speed cameras. At about the same rate, track days have risen in popularity - and its maybe not a bad thing to keep speed where it belongs. Isn't it right that the Elan should be allowed to shine in this environment and if this should become the main occupation of an individual car then I think that it makes sense to optimise it for the job. And if the car should be used exclusively on a track, I see no reason to limit the degree adaptation.

With this in mind, I think that the most significant gains are to be found in chassis control i.e Kinematics and compliance, which takes us back to my suggestions about the structural design......

[surfboardfiller]

Lotus recently uprated Elise, Exige and Esprit Shocks for after market, I think some new shocks and an FIA Roll bar would be first on my list for the Elan with rear end Aerodynamics development a close 2nd.

How did SyV's roll bar project go?

[Kuching]

Sy's rollcage is due to be progressed in the next few months. This work could tie in nicely with the other track modification ideas.

[F1 LOTUS]

new shocks and an FIA Roll bar would be first on my list for the Elan.

How did SyV's roll bar project go?

I think I would add Uprated [and Cockpit-Adjustable] Anti-Roll Bars somewhere near the top of the list in an effort to maintain balance as the car's developed? Addressing weight distribution would also be a key item.

The other aspect of this topic is from which point of view the project is being approached - if it's to build the ultimate no-expense-spared 1-off trackday car, or, to develop a range of parts for street-legal and occasional trackday outings?

If it's the former, then you'll end up designing an F1/Le Mans (without rules) car that has the outward appearance of an Elan???

How far would I go?...
Whilst it would be very interesting to replace the boat-anchor-wet noodle backbone chassis, I doubt there would be many owners willing to take the project to that extreme; everything else is probably up for grabs though, providing it is essentially bolt-on in nature and can be completed over a weekend or two?

[Nige]

This is a fascinating thread made all the more interesting by the knowledge and experience of the contributors. I cannot bring knowledge or experience of the same sort to the discussion but I'm happy to add my views of how I wish to develop my ownership of my Elan. Firstly I've had my S2 from new so I'm solely responsible for any changes from the way Lotus designed and built it, that alone makes me consider more carefully any changes I make as I'm not making changes to a car that has already been adapted to meet someone elses needs. I cannot claim to be a restorer or originality at all costs fiend either, the mountain chip, brake upgrade, rear strut brace, LGM hoops and hardtop are all testament to that. However, I do feek that despite these changes the car remains essentially an Elan and as I have kept all the parts I have replaced I could (if I ever wanted to) return it to standard. I started to do track days a couple of years ago, I don't do many (largely through lack of time caused by work and family committments) but all my changes have been orientated towards improving the car for track use and any future changes would continue that theme. However, I still wish to use the car on the road for trips such as Le Mans and for the joy of driving it and whilst I'm willing to compromise some of the road car qualities I don't want to drive a fully stripped out, windscreen less track day special any where other than the track. I fully recognise that this woill ultimately limit and compromise how far I can change the car for track day use. I also would not want the car to ever look like anything other than an M100 Elan so wild bodywork changes are out but subtle tweaks might be ok on a case by case basis. But above all else every change has to have a purpose, an improvement of function but I also want it to look good in a restrained and (to my mind) tasteful way that complements the car.

This leads me to conclude that the first thing I want to do is remove weight from the car. I believe our Elan could do with going on a diet that would also give some flexibility to where the weight was in the car. Once weight was reduced some suspension changes would be necessary, I have done nothing on this aspect (other than a strut brace) so far because I know that I know less about it than Lotus and certainly don't know enough to do a good job. Stability of the car at speed is a factor so some aerodynamic work providing it was subtle and largely invisible would be of interest. Underpinning all of this may well be the need to remove the most significant compromise and replace the chassis with something stiffer and possibly lighter.

Finally, having been told this week that I'm changing jobs again in a months time I may no longer need to use my NA as an every day commuter vehicle, the question is do I sell it, or use it as the basis for a developed Elan along the lines discussed in this thread (after sourcing a Turbo engine maybe)?