Post-Swap Engine Problems

[GeoffSmith]

If you run ElanScan, you can monitor the coolant temperature so no need to take the thermostat out - if the temperature rises then limits at ~85°C, the 'stat is OK). It may also help is determining whether the fans should be operating - I'm sure there must be a flag which is set at the requisite temperature.

[Sy V]

Geoff, are you sure?

I know the 'stat opens at ~85 degrees, but the fans don't kick in untill 110 and go off again at 103 degrees.

[John_W]

Sy,
Very sorry to hear of your problems after all the hard graft.

Much as it pains me to say this, Geoff is correct. This Elanscan plot shows how the temperature should rise when sitting at idle for a long period. You can see the thermostat opening at 85 degC then the fans cutting in at 110 degC and going off at 102 degC over several cycles.

Good luck.

John

[DeeAitch]

I think the stat opens at 82Deg C - should sit there for some time, slowly creeping up to around the 110 mark when the sensor switches the fans on (Set Temp is stamped on the sensor). The sensor is a simple bi-mettalic switch. Shorting the wire, as indicated by Muley, should set the fans away, with ign on, that is. With ign. off the electric pump should run.

Is it running on all 4? If not, try shorting the plug leads one by one to identify which pot is off - maybe a sticky injector?

Probably a lot of condensation in the exhaust causing the white smoke, fingers crossed.

Stick with it Sy

[chris.t]

Given these symptoms (excluding the fans problem) - Roy at PM's has suggested exchanging the MAT & ECU Coolant Temp Sensor.

Comments

you would defo get an error code for that. Mine failed and it fails such that the ECU thinks that the coolant temp is at abs. zero and consequently over does the fuel mixture resulting in extremely lumpy running and clouds of blue smoke not white!

[dapinky]

I believe the manual says that the HVL's should be submerged in light oil and then squeezed to get any airlocks out. This is something that I was somewhat dubious about during my rebuild, as you don't want to keep having to remove the camshafts to do this. Most recent person to come across this was either Paul Watkins or Dapinky during Paul's head recon - ask them.

I'll be interested to hear if the "good thrashing" route does the trick.

Sy, Neil is correct about the info in the manual, I'm not at the stage of putting the HVLs in yet (hopefully Wednesday), but will be filling them with warm, runny oil first.

Paul has just been round and given me a hand to drop the head back on (it's easier as a 2-man job!) and he went down the "they don't move too much, thrash it" route without any problems - it soon settled down nicely. So the system does appear to work - certainly with HVLs which are 'known' - but as yours could have been dry for a while, I don't know if they will refill quickly / easily / not at all with the 'thrash it' method.


I suppose that as long as the oil pump is putting out good pressure they should bleed through okay.

[Candles]

Can I just throw in another easy-to-check but previously unmentioned possibility: Engine earthing.

When I put my engine back in, I forgot to reconnect the three black earth wires that connect to the plenum next to the fuel pressure regulator. Without these, the sensor outputs were all unknown and it ran like you describe but without the white smoke. It sounded so rattly I thought it must be mechanical as I had changed the cam belt as well. As soon as I touched the wires onto the plenum it ran like a dream.

There are a few other bonding leads which could be the culprits.

Candles.

[Doug]

some half assed thoughts:

yes, check ElanScan as some sensors could be bad.

yes HVL could be a cause


a great help as always I am . . .

[Sy V]

Yep Roy mentioned the three earths in that corner too, thanks.

Things are much improved. Will post logs later, but ran a quick elanscan to captire any residuals. Then removed dump valve to access fan switch. Earthed it and no recirc pump. I've tried to remember the last time I heard it work - think it might be knackered.
Ignition on earthed it again and fans work.
Then when replacing the switch I noticed - sorry gang, but Roy said to check the MAT sensor didn't he. Well I didn't have to - it wasn't connected. I blame working every hour God sends and having a late evening last night. I removed it because I wasn't happy with the jubilee clip on the brake vacuum take-off at the rear of the engine. Obviously forgot to replace it - sorry.

I expect a good flaming.

Ran like a dream when connected...ecu files to follow; I'd appreciate feedback on them.

http://www.vickers.eclipse.co.uk/neweginecheck.ecu

http://www.vickers.eclipse.co.uk/neweginecheck2.ecu

[GeoffSmith]

Glad to see you got there. Take a break and have a beer.

[GeoffSmith]

No MAT signal and MAT error flag during run #1!

Coolant temperature rises as expected and fans operate.

To my uneducated eye, nothing appears abnormal but get Alan/John to confirm.

[Monty]

Was just going to say sorry to hear of u`r troubles Sy, but sounds like u`ve getting things sorted. Very easy to miss things. Once it`s complete u`ll be glad of what u have achived.

[clemo]

good stuff....
after speaking to you on the phone i couldn't work out why a "brand new engine" would do what it is....

i was going down the slightly bocked oil pump route....
as you did mention higher oil pressure than normal.
just thinking differently. as of couse all of the above is correct diagnosis as well.

glad to hear its on the mend.

[Sy V]

Well, after giving her a shake down yesterday I still have the dry HVL and associated tapping.
I've run out of time to address it myself but it seems relatively simple to do and is well explained in the Manual Section EC.7 pages 23-28.

I really don't want to burden my friendship with PM by asking him to look at it at this late (pre-Donington) stage. It's one of those that I think he'd do it, but be silently very angry for me even approaching them at this time of year. I know how hectic it gets down there in this week preceding the show, so I have (reluctantly, because their an unknown entity as far as my car's concerned) booked the car in at Nick Whale's for them to recharge the HVL.

The service manager (Sally) said that they may have to order parts (I'm hoping that she says this to all would-be customers) but they'll let me know if they do. I think that I just need to convince them that I KNOW what the problem is and that parts for a brand new engine (having only run for ~30 miles) will not be necessary!

[Paul.P]

Not that its ought to do with anyone else Sy, but he might also be angry youv'e took the car elsewhere again ?

[Sy V]

Oh mate, don't I know it.

[Sy V]

I went and saw PM this evening after work. He confirmed that they wouldn't have welcomed an approach and couldn't have done it. They're so busy that Paul's in the workshop at twenty past five doing a pressure test himself!

[Sy V]

Well, just leaving for NW's.
Strangely nervous about this...

[Sy V]

Hmm. Looks like my reluctance wasn't unfounded.
Call from NW's - they have 'had a look at it' and confirmed HVL problem.
6 hours labour (if you have a look at the service labour times document in the downloads area, this seems about right) and they say that they may need up to 4 new lifters at £15 a piece - to be ordered for delivery tomorrow.
I have told them to proceed, but yet again reminder them that it's a brand new engine and I can't see how they will need parts.
They said that they would begin work on it.
Clever diagnosis of 4 new lifters given that they haven't actually begun to strip the engine.

They estimate £700 +VAT


unbef*ckinglievable

...and all because I ran out of time to do it myself before Donington.

[Paul.P]

Me thinks someones taking the piss here, BIG TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!