Pinky II

[Monty]

Today took Pinky round to Impulse Developments who are Race and Road engine specalist to get some advice, spoke to the Owner Adrian and explain my situation with my engine trouble. He`s hopeful it`s not a cracked head but can`t be 100% sure, he also advised always to have the head skimmed as with checking the head with a straight edge doesn`t show any local spot that might be shallow. So the head has to come off and were going for

Head pressure test £25
if head isn`t damaged then a
Head skimmed £25

also talked about port & polishing and there alot of gains in doing this as they have all the machines and knowledge. The price would be around £465 which is full head work. Since i haven`t got the money that will have to be another year
Had a good chat with Adrian for a good half hour and was very helpfull, they work on Race engines to road use.

www.impulsedevelopments.co.uk/index.htm

Impulse Developments
Unit C9, Fieldhouse Industrial Estate
Fieldhouse Road
Rochdale
Lancashire
0L12 0AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1706 650 800
Fax: +44 (0) 1706 340 900

Email: sales@impulsedevelopments.co.uk

[John_W]

Monty,
I'm sorry to hear you have another head job to do, however. I can well imagine how disheartening it is after having just done it all.

Glad you've found help. Sounds like they're good. I think you're right just doing what must be done and avoiding temptation - sounds like a good price.

On the bright side, you should be able to do it quicker this time.

Good luck and hope it stays sorted this time.

John

[Monty]

Well i feel a complete Dick

I`ve just spent 3 hours dismantling the parts and bits needed to get the head off, so it`s a good start for the weekend. After and more cuts and scrapes removed the rocker cover to find some of the oil has gone white so checked the head bolts and guest what? there loose got a good half turn on all bolts
Warning the Lotus Manual is a load of Shite
When i had a word with Adrian at Impusle Developments he said no matter what the manual says he re checks the head bolts twice.
1st one after the engine has been ran up to temp at idle
2nd after 500 miles.

Now i don`t know if i`ve done any damage to the head when Pinky over heated.
So do i carry on and take the head off (still a couple hours work) and get it checked? But that means stripping the head right back.
or re torque (which i`ve done) and put the engine bay back together to see how she goes?

If oil and water gets under the gasket will this just be forced out when re-torquing or will it never seal correctly?


Edited,
Whats the top cam cover all about! what a nightmare to get out the center part gets caught on the cam pulleys and ended cracking mine last time and this time a large piece broke off so ripped the f**cker out and slammed it against the wall and now it`s in bits Bloody good job i don`t work in a garage i`d reck the place LMAO

[Doug]

Yo, Montrose

have an Ale and chill, my friend.

It's a good thing that you have likely just found the cause of the problem!

yikes on the head bolts hope you didn't re-use the originals??
time to order up some ARP bolts for the head--maybe call them and find out what studs and nuts you need--or send them the old ones to match?!

you need to either decide to have someone else do it all;
or get help where you need it by sending the parts to be skimmed, etc;
or do it all yourself with as much advice as you can get.

Hang in There -- bet it felt good to throw it to the wall . . .

[Monty]

An Ale think i need a crate (to put over my head lol)

There`s no mention of replacing the head bolts in the manual and there are other who have reused the originals. The main thing is to re-check the bolts after warm up and 500 miles
I was going to re-check the bolts as i was going to respray the cam cover but then a cancelation came up on the trackday

Didn`t really need much help, changing a head gasket should be fairly straight forward if u go by the manual

Didn`t have the head skimmed as it wasn`t warped and didn`t want to do it for the sake of it just incase it needed it in the future.

Another Bastardo bolt to get to is the Alternator adjustment bolt as the oil pipes are in the way and also the bottom cambelt cover oh and the tentioner pull. Might drill some hole through the dam chassis to make access easyer LMAO

[Doc Fizzix]

no matter what the manual says he re checks the head bolts twice.
1st one after the engine has been ran up to temp at idle
2nd after 500 miles.

Question: When you check the head bolts, do you actually lossen them and then re-torque? Or do you just put the torque wrench on and see if they are loss?

If you actually lossen them, how much?

[Doug]

I'd say never loosen them! Only retorque to be sure they're tight. A lot of head bolts are meant to be torqued once only and then replaced. I do not know what kind Lotus uses--I'd check the manual or email Hethel for their advice on the bolts . . . .

[Doc Fizzix]

I'd say never loosen them! Only retorque to be sure they're tight. A lot of head bolts are meant to be torqued once only and then replaced. I do not know what kind Lotus uses--I'd check the manual or email Hethel for their advice on the bolts . . . .

Thats what I had always believed and been told but I was just wondering what others were doing because when I discussed this same issue with Robie he was telling me that he would crack them loose and then re-torque, I do not have the balls to do that

After reading this thread, I thought I would check mine again. Just came in from the garage, mine were just fine.

[DeeAitch]

Gutted for you Monty
Know what you mean about the upper cambelt cover - nearly cut mine in half during my recent cambelt change, until I realised it wouldn't help as you still can't get to the tensioner It now has an inspection hole so at least I can check the belt tension in future! BTW they are still avaialble new from Lotus - around £25 IIRC.
Also the Alternator bolt what a pain. Extended mine a bit but it is still a barsteward.
As for bolt torque I don't know of any modern car that gets them checked when new - not much consolation for you now but it is certainly not on any service schedule I've seen. Can't imagine any M100 had this done in the early days.
Not that I'm saying don't do it but you shouldn't have to. BTW Did you lubricate the bolts as per the manual?

Easy for me to say and by no means a recommendation but I would just torque them back up and see what happens Make sure to change the oil and water tho'

[Monty]

no matter what the manual says he re checks the head bolts twice.
1st one after the engine has been ran up to temp at idle
2nd after 500 miles.

Question: When you check the head bolts, do you actually lossen them and then re-torque? Or do you just put the torque wrench on and see if they are loss?

If you actually lossen them, how much?

I just checked to see if they were up to the torque setting, i`m with Doug never loosen them just to re-torque.
I just went by the Manual
Nothing about replacing bolts,
Lubricated the bolts,
Torque bolts to both settings in the correct order,
Nothing difficult about it but it didn`t work for me Lesson learnt will always check the bolts after warm up and 500 miles.

It could be cause it`s not the Lotus gasket that the one i used compressed more

Think i`ll carry on at get the head of again and get it check out to be on the safe side, but won`t be today as my back is killing me

Dave worte:

It now has an inspection hole so at least I can check the belt tension in future! BTW they are still avaialble new from Lotus - around £25 IIRC.

Dave, you`ll have to post a pick of your cambelt cover, inspection hole sounds interesting. Thanks for the head up on the cambelt cover price, i`ll have to get one ordered

[Doc Fizzix]

It could be cause it's not the Lotus gasket that the one i used compressed more

Very strange, was the gasket for a turbo? I thought that the gaskets for the non-turbo and turbo were different but that still might not cause the problem you had.

What type of torque wench are you using?

[Enright]

Doc may have hit upon something with the torque wrench - I've been told you should always back them right off for storage so that the spring inside isn't under any compression.
Otherwise perhaps the calibration could go right out.
And I bet if it does, it's going to crack at a lower setting, so it indicates that you've put the correct amount of torque on, but instead it's a lot less.

[Monty]

The torque wrench isn`t old, bought it last year and always back it off the adjustment and keep it stored in it`s box.

If the calibration was out, then when i came to check the torque setting again then the wrench should off clicked as thats the same setting i set them at, but a got maybe more than a 1/4 of a turn on each bolt. So the bolts had become loose I do believe it`s down to the head gasket compressing and thats why u need to re-check.

As far as i know Kmckmc gasket is for a Turbo as u had one fitted to his engine with no probs.

[Doc Fizzix]

As far as i know Kmckmc gasket is for a Turbo as u had one fitted to his engine with no probs.

I think you are thinking of someone else, my set was bought from Lotus. I used all original Lotus gaskets (or should I say Isuzu original)

I know nothing about the Kmckmc gasket except for what I have read here the last couple days. Where did he get the gaskets? Did he have them made or did he get them from a distributer? It would be nice to know some more information on these gaskets.

[GeoffSmith]

How much lubrication did you use on the bolts Monty?

If you've formed an airtight seal around the bolt by using too much, you end up compressing the trapped air/oil which can result in you reaching the set torque early. The result is that the head is not close enough to the block and, in time, the compressed air will purge so when you check the torque, it will read low.

[Monty]

As far as i know Kmckmc gasket is for a Turbo as u had one fitted to his engine with no probs.

I think you are thinking of someone else, my set was bought from Lotus. I used all original Lotus gaskets (or should I say Isuzu original)

I know nothing about the Kmckmc gasket except for what I have read here the last couple days. Where did he get the gaskets? Did he have them made or did he get them from a distributer? It would be nice to know some more information on these gaskets.

Doc, u asked me was the gasket for a Turbo, hence the reply

IIRC Kmckmc (Micheal) got them from a distributer but i know nothing more but assume it`s an Isuzu type

Geoff,
Only used a little oil, used fingers to apply.

Anyways, i`m putting it down to the gasket compressing and bot re-checking the head bolts after use. So i`ll be getting stuck in over the weekend to get the head off and hopefully in a weeks time pinky will be back on the road.

[Doc Fizzix]

As far as i know Kmckmc gasket is for a Turbo as u had one fitted to his engine with no probs.

I guess your wording was confusing.

You said " for a Turbo as U had one fitted"

I never had one of the kmckmc gaskets fitted so your wording confused me, I bought my kits here in the States from Dave Bean so I know nothing about the Kmckmc gasket.

There is no reason why those bolts should have come loose as they did. I am wondering if the gasket could be the cause

[Monty]

As far as i know Kmckmc gasket is for a Turbo as u had one fitted to his engine with no probs.

I guess your wording was confusing.

You said " for a Turbo as U had one fitted"

I never had one of the kmckmc gaskets fitted so your wording confused me, I bought my kits here in the States from Dave Bean so I know nothing about the Kmckmc gasket.

There is no reason why those bolts should have come loose as they did. I am wondering if the gasket could be the cause

LOL never spotted the "U" bit sorry thats a slip of the finger should of been He
Should of re-checked my posting but my head wasn`t with me
Just another thing i didn`t re-check

[Doug]

when I discussed this same issue with Robie he was telling me that he would crack them loose and then re-torque, I do not have the balls to do that

I am no engine guru, but that has got to be wrong. There's no way it could get tighter on its own--only looser. Thus you only need to check the torque wrench on it to be sure it's tight. And the reason why is how the bolts are designed to stretch just a tad, and usually only supposed to stretch ONCE and if you retorque them they can break. Just blabbering anyway . . . .

[GeoffSmith]

I am no engine guru, but that has got to be wrong. There's no way it could get tighter on its own--only looser. Thus you only need to check the torque wrench on it to be sure it's tight. And the reason why is how the bolts are designed to stretch just a tad, and usually only supposed to stretch ONCE and if you retorque them they can break. Just blabbering anyway . . . .

I'm with Doug 100%. What's a robot know anyway?