Are Astra GTE brakes Identical

[ailwyn]

Well in the thread that John linked to, on the last or last but one page, someone seems to have been successful in fitting ATE(?) calipers and discs.

Not sure what point you were making John, is there a GM alternative or isn't there or are you pointing out that it's a contentious issue?

A.

[John_W]

Well in the thread that John linked to, on the last or last but one page, someone seems to have been successful in fitting ATE(?) calipers and discs.
Not sure what point you were making John, is there a GM alternative or isn't there or are you pointing out that it's a contentious issue?
A.

Ailwyn,
I think the point I was making is that this has all been gone over before. As such, it's probably best to know about the thread I linked to rather than re-invent the wheel - or brakes.

If anybody thinks the 9-page thread I mentioned is long, you should have seen the previous one which thankfully got lost in the Forum implosion of 2005.

The attempts at finding suitable alternatives (as documented in these threads) are what led to the Wilwood upgrade. Which is what I have and am quite pleased with.

John
"Those who don't remember the past are condemned to relive it".

[Paul Reid]

Sorry to open old wounds. However, I am in the process of overhauling brakes, hence my interest.

I will summarise what I have read and then ask if anyone has answers to any of the open ends.

The 9 page discussion started by Dimitris with his fitting of astra GSI calipers.

With these people found varying amounts of pad overhang on the edge of the discs (including Dimitris despite his early protestations).

Many looked to find larger discs to eliminate the overhang but to no avail.

Complete replacement systems were found (willwood etc).

The calipers that Dimitris fitted worked (and, I believe, are the later ATE model with 52mm piston. The earlier, more open, caliper has a 47mm piston).

Lotus seem to have used a non standard caliper carrier as a workaround for the disc/caliper combination they fitted.


Now my questions:

Does a small overhang of 1 to 3 mm really matter? If so why?
Has anyone tried the ATE calipers for any length of time and if so with what outcome? Dimitris?

It seems a shame that all the effort that has gone into finding a low cost solution to improve the brakes just sits without a proper conclusion.

Please try to resist the urge to groan and/or comment unless you have facts that answer or help.

[Russc]

Sod it, i knew i forgot something. I have the wheels off today and jotted down the details on the calipers so i could check up on where they actually came from.

Left the details in the garage, will pick it up tomm night and post the details tomm night.

[Russc]

Well i`ve jotted down the details, they are marked GM FN52-24R, did a google search and it came up with a topic from here Thery are def GM calipers though.

Took a couple of piccies as well (excuse the filthy garage and the rust !!)






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[paza1]

The calipers look like a single piston design but with a different design for holding the pads in place.

Found this http://migweb.co.uk/forums/vauxhall_archive/t-317770.html

I wonder how the braking feel, performance and maintenance compares to stock?

Cheers
Mark

[rip]

The calipers in Russc's pics are definitely not the same as on my Elan. Mine are similar to those on my old Mk1 Astra/Mk 2 Cav, and even use the same size pads as those on the Astra (& probably the Cav too, but I cannot remember that as well).

My Mk 3 Cav had calipers similar to those in the pics above.

Given that the rears are US GM parts, I would think that the fronts are too.

[Russc]

Interesting, i only got told of where they came from by the previous owner as he fitted them. He said they were from an early 90`s GTE.

It`s going in for some work shortly and i`m getting the garage to find out once and for all where they are from, mainly as i want some different pads. Once i know what car they came from i`ll let others know.

Keep meaning to post details of the discs as well as they don`t have any overhang at all. Quite the opposite there is now a slight lip

[rip]

Interesting, i only got told of where they came from by the previous owner as he fitted them. He said they were from an early 90's GTE.

Coulld well be. My Cav with similar calipers was a 1989 2.0.

Once you have taken a pad out, you should be able to read a part no from the back of it.

I will check my parents' garage when I am there at the end of the month too see if I have any old ones from the mk 3 Cav. I doubt I would have saved any but I have a gut feeling that they are right for your calipers.

[Ex Fastcat]

Ok, everyone.
Here is the deal.
My very first release drawings when I joined Lotus from College were the brake components.
I took the GM drgs and copied them to Lotus format on Lotus drawing frames.
They will still be on the microfiche system there.
That much I am sure of.

100% I can assure everyone that they are GM.
They started out as bog standard and here are where the confusions lie.
but I will come back to that.

Now if my memory serves me correctly, both caliper and Disc are standard J platform (Cavalier/Calibra).
For those in the US, that means you are probably in for brake judder issues as per Cavalier owners across the continent. (Dodgy Discs (rotors) from Dayton plant).

Discs are sorted then - J Car.

Calipers: I believe the sports model Astra got Cavalier brake upgrade.
As with everyone, I cannot remember whether it was GSi or GTE.
I believe it was the GTE as it had the higher performance.

As for the questions / comments about non standard:

We have all suffered binding.
My car has had it, and our development vehicles had it.
I spent some of the most tedious weeks of my life doing a full study on the whys and wherefores because we could find no reason.
Everything was in spec.

Eventually, I concluded that we had a tolerance issue on the standard brakes (yes, in the sliders).
Some of them could bind if the mounting faces of the knuckle were at one end of the tolerance band and the slider parallelism was at the other.
Everything still in spec remember.

I believe we then specified that we get a particular tighter range although i seem to recall that GM were going to try to fix the issue.
Tightening tolerances on those volumes is not a cheap proposition though.

For those that kick us, this was an area where we actually machined components to a better standard than GM. The knuckles.

In summary: (And from memory)
Rotors - Standard J car (Cavalier)
Calipers - GTE 89 MY

So, in an attempt to bury this, I will see if I can get a pal to check out the original drgs and confirm the GM ident number which should be on the drg.
Can't promise, but will give it a go .

God I hate those calipers.
Still love the car though. I believe the best road vehicle Lotus ever made.