A post seals

[DaveO]

The writing on mine looks far more like it comes from a GMT-6 time zone, than a GMT+9 one!

(and, unless I'm mistaken, there is a faint whiff of Maple about them )

They're all made in Canada, including the ones sold in Korea.

....ahh.....



.......but.......


....I know where i sent the PayPal money to, and in which $ currency

Why all the secrecy and "nod nod wink wink" then ?

[tweetdriver63]

The writing on mine looks far more like it comes from a GMT-6 time zone, than a GMT+9 one!

(and, unless I'm mistaken, there is a faint whiff of Maple about them )

They're all made in Canada, including the ones sold in Korea.

....ahh.....



.......but.......


....I know where i sent the PayPal money to, and in which $ currency

I would just be interested to know how much money you sent. I don't care what currency you use to answer me. I can convert it to $US for comparison. I do live in a GMT -6 time zone, however.

Based on Sy's post, where he said about 260 GBP/pair, I think the lead I got at $356/each is high (like I thought). I would be interested in getting some from Sy's source, since our attempts to get new ones designed/made (with surferphil, etc) seem to be at a standstill. I know I haven't been a member for very long (only 3 months), since I've only been a Lotus owner that long, but I think I've been a pretty active contributor with over 100 posts/month.

[dapinky]

Chris,

To be totaly honest, i don't know the guy who actually sourced them, but i paid $510 US into a Paypal account which, in fairness, could have been anywhere in the world - you know how annonymous they can be with the interweb system!

I think it's only Sy who knows the actual source (but I may be mistaken), but I just assumed that they came from Canada as that is where the original manufacture was performed.

When i got them, there was no Lotus (or Kia) part numbers on the packaging, so I based my assumptions on the manufacturer rather than the original (company) customer

I was happy to risk a 'going rate' payment without asking too many questions in order to 'test' the source, and I'm sure that if another batch can be obtained, then they will be, and i can attest to the fact that they are okay.

If it's someone at the factory who is doing a bit of a 'foreigner' (English expression for a personal job on the side) with the original moulds, or whatever, then I'm sure we'd all agree that patience will be more worthwhile than blowing the source by pushing for a big initial order.

In order to protect the (fragile) supply, anything that is obtained will be offered to LEC via Sy as and when availlable.

Maybe in the future there will be a 'direct order' option, but that is NOT the case at the moment.

[rip]

Jack/Rip

1130 at my car in the cowsheds, tomorrow.

Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight....

My money is on Rip...

TTFN

I only wanted a chat to find out what material they were made from. They look the same as the Lotus ones, ie. mainly foam. I was hoping they could be something with a slightly higher rubber content which may be more robust.

As for their origin, Sy has previously said this is something he did not want to discuss. I have no problem with that.

I did speak to someone about these on Saturday. They said that the foamy stuff provides a better seal than anything else, which is why Lotus are trying to this type manufactured again. He also said that they are now going back to a manufacturer who had submitted a design which had been previously rejected, and that new ones from Lotus are finally in the pipeline.

I don't know how long the pipeline is though.

[Dave Eds]

I know where they came from but I'm telling none of you


......

































.... don't really

[surfboardfiller]

......Based on Sy's post, where he said about 260 GBP/pair, I think the lead I got at $356/each is high (like I thought). I would be interested in getting some from Sy's source, since our attempts to get new ones designed/made (with surferphil, etc) seem to be at a standstill.....

If anyone wants a Model made, I can make it, if you want a prototype, I can make one in silicone rubber. No problem. However I don't want to fund this out of my pocket, and to find all the interest dries up when it comes time for people to pay.

I have a lot of money and time tied up in Bpost caps (which are finally in production ) and Rear - lotus light panel (very close to production) so I cannot stretch any more money.

As I see it, both the design and materials are flawed with the existing A-seal product; Lotus may well feel the same way. Who knows when Lotus will be supplying the new ones and in what shape and form will they be.
look at the Stage 2 Elise seals, 100% better than the originals and nothing like the basic M100 type. It could be good or it could not happen. It is a large financial risk at the moment and I cannot take it.

[GeoffSmith]

Phil,

Despite the handful of seals that have surfaced, there are still a shed load of people out there who suffer every time it rains. In addition, there are a lot of people who are reasonably dry at the moment but recognise the shortcoming of the existing seal and anticipate trouble some time in the future (I'm fortunate enough to be in this category).

I think it is unreasonable to expect one individual to take on the burden of developing the seal, not only financially but the hassle as well. I do think that this is the single most important item that could be developed however. The majority of us do not have the requisite skills to take this forward, so it seems that, until recently, people have been waiting on the supposed Lotus development (and I think we all know what ballpark price that is going to be).

Given the time that seals have not been available, the suggestion of subcontracting out the design and development seemed to be a sensible solution to me, although funding could have been a stumbling block. I think that a lot of people had their expectations raised when you showed your hand and I expect there will be a few despondent people having read you post.

In addition, we all know that the day job tends to interfere with all thinks Lotus and projects invariably take longer than anticipated, which may mean that Lotus would produce something before anything from you reached the masses, possibly halting the recovery of development costs.

As Chris says, this all seems to have stalled somewhat and it would be good if it could be restarted. I don't know how other people feel, but I would be willing to put some money up front to restart the development. If we could get enough people to invest, it would relieve you of the financial burden and you could get on with what you do best. I think it would have to be on the understanding that the investment may not pay off but if they did make it into production, those who had paid up front would probably get seals at a lower price than those who merely sat back and watched!

If people are interested in going this route, then it would have to be reasonably accurately costed, achievable timescales proposed and major risks identified. In an attempt to kick it off, could you give us a rough idea of the development cost, timescales and likely cost of production standard seals? We could then see if sufficient people were interested.

Geoff

[surfboardfiller]

Phil,


...... I think that a lot of people had their expectations raised when you showed your hand and I expect there will be a few despondent people having read you post.
.......
Geoff

Did I I remember saying I was able, but not while Bcaps and Light pannel are my priority.
I am out of pocket on the pannel by quite a bit (£100s) and out of time too; due to the 'expert' I hired to do the Vacuum infusion mould for me, left it half done for the last 6 months.

I'm always willing to contribute with my ideas and I really care about this working how it should. I'm interested in a collaboration.

[tweetdriver63]

Here's where my efforts have led. Tom at Precision Replacement Parts had at first said they could make the seals for us. I got this email from him a few days ago:

Chris,

At this time we don't have any of our suppliers that would have these parts. For them to start making the tooling would cost upwards of 5000 to 10 000 dollars. But there is good news, I have contacted Motorcars of Georgia and they think they can get the seals for you. They are dealers for BMW, Lamborghini, Lotus and Mecedes Benz. Their web sight is

motorcars-of-georgia,ebizautos.com
Tel 770-604 9481

I spoke with Brian in parts and he said, Their computer showed they can get them and they are $356.96 a seal.

So there you go, good luck in getting those seals.

Tom

Contacting Brian just got me referred to DBE, and they don't have anything, which I already knew. Dead end. I did get the impression that DBE is going to contact Cooper-Standard to see what info they can get, after I told them who the Canadian company was that made them originally.

[GeoffSmith]

Phil,

Could you help in specifying the technology & materials and suggest some manufacturers so others could pick it up and move it on?

Geoff

[surfboardfiller]

Phil,

Could you help in specifying the technology & materials and suggest some manufacturers so others could pick it up and move it on?

Geoff

Sorry Geoff I wasn't involved in finding manufacturers or materials, is there any maufacturing left in Britain?

I would not bother with a manufacturer until you have a working prototype which solves the problems. You could start with the people who make the Elise S2 Seals. Or a company who have already done this before on another covertable sports car with success.

[theelanman]

I'd be willing to put some cash in if the kitty wont run to it...

I have a couple of seal fabricators listed but theyre in my notes book at work so I'll have a look monday and add the names if you want

[dermotbell]

I would also be willing to put some money in, if we can come up with a rough idea of how much is needed. I am nice and dry but my missus gets a drip.

[Martin R]

I would also be willing to contribute to move this forward.

[gtm100]

I couldn't wait for a re-manufactured solution during our very wet summer (even if I wanted to spend that kind of money) so I bought a hood cover from Cover Systems (which also keeps the neighbour's cat off) and then made my own seals from 2 standard profiles glued together and some moulding compound for the corner. Drivers side does the job but the passengers side whistles at 60+mph. Total cost about £50.
The Lotus original is a very complex moulding with a plastic L shaped reinforcer at the corner and a wiggly wire reinforcer down the length. Being made of steel, it rusts and blows the sponge rubber apart. I hope no-one is planning to make a straight copy.

[surfboardfiller]

[rip]

The Lotus original is a very complex moulding with a plastic L shaped reinforcer at the corner and a wiggly wire reinforcer down the length. Being made of steel, it rusts and blows the sponge rubber apart. I hope no-one is planning to make a straight copy.

Lotus are, I believe.

[tigerdog]

Being made of steel, it rusts and blows the sponge rubber apart.

Lotus are, I believe.

Maybe they'll have the foresight to use a stainless steel wiggly wire this time.

[surfboardfiller]

Being made of steel, it rusts and blows the sponge rubber apart.

Lotus are, I believe.

Maybe they'll have the foresight to use a stainless steel wiggly wire this time.

LOL

I don't think it's the wiggly wire doing the dammage, I think the seals just fall apart with use and when they do they let water in to rust the wire.

[tweetdriver63]

and I think resting the elbow on the door and the hand on the A-post (usually near the top) is probably the biggest cause of breakdowns. The oils off the skin of the hand degrade the rubber over time. I'm sure most of you who have bad seals will notice that most, if not all, of the damage is an area pretty much exactly the width of your four fingers, right at the top.