stainless steel rear wishbones

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Postby RayD » Sun 17.02.2008, 16:48

Thanks for the explanation on the bushes Gareth.

Dave,

Everyone would agree with you about Gareth’s contribution in the same way they would appreciate yours.

I agree with most of what you say – apart from this bit…

dapinky wrote:
...put up, or shut up!



…and poly bushes were available more than twenty years ago. :wink:

The thing that attracts me to the original bushes is how well they have lasted – they seem to be in uncannily good condition even when wishbone has fallen apart - and the novel idea of having them different front to back to create rear wheel toe in.

I’m imagining the poly bushes will be rotating on the bolt or in the sleeve with the subsequent wear – or are they fitted in such a way that they flex in the same way as bonded rubber bush?

Ray
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Postby dapinky » Sun 17.02.2008, 17:14

Ray,

Please don't take my comments personally - I appologise if it came across that way :cry:

I didn't aim it at you, merely getting exasperated at the people who are happy to critisise the products, but have done nothing to secure their future availlability.

The poly bushes availlable 20 years ago were NOT the same as they have now - As i said before, my Material Science is not up to date - but 20 years ago it WAS fairly current ;-)

Certainly, the technology was in its infancy for small volume use - and there was less understanding of chemical compositions to replicate various shore ratings.

Whilst you state that the original bushes are still going strong, let me just say that I had the 'New' bushes in my unfitted wishbone (from the parts sale) tested against the 'Old' ones on the car.

They looked very similar, but the new ones were firmer by about 8-10%.

As such, any difference in the 'hardness' of the front and rear bushes to allow toe-in is perhaps easily lost on an older car :?

The major advantage of poly bushes being that there is no gradual degradation with time - unlike rubber.

In defence of the original bushes, They hold their own far better than the stuff Ford used in the Cortinas/Capris of the 70's and the Escorts of the 80's/90's.

As for the bushes currently sourced - I have yet to see them in the flesh (plastic?) but they may be bonded to the central sleeve and have a bonded outer sleeve, or they may have a 'floating' inner sleeve and no outer sleeve - either way, they have been used by SWL since they started their production of the copy 'bones without any problems.

Due to the flex of the material, I would not envisage any undue stress on the bushes either way, as they are made to fit the job - not just found on the shelf and made to do.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Postby theelanman » Sun 17.02.2008, 18:23

RayD wrote: are they fitted in such a way that they flex in the same way as bonded rubber bush?


yes.....
the rotation is taken by the stainless tube in the centre of the bush whilst the poly bit of the bush doesnt move at all....
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Postby DeeAitch » Sun 17.02.2008, 18:53

dapinky wrote:The point about fitting tollerances is a valid one which i had not considered - but now have :wink: .

I see no great problem - if you fit them youself, you're probably practical enough to get round any slight issues - if you go to a garage, then they definately will be!!!


Just to clarify I have OE wishbones which are on the limit of the cam adjusters and the toe is still out (maybe in, I don't remember :lol: ). I'm not anal - this is the first time I have had it checked in over 4 years and then only 'cos it was free :P
'fixing' it would not be easy. Certainly out of tyre spots league!
The point is that correct toe is currently impossible on my car. Now I have no idea if it is the bones, chassis or upright that is out, but something is. The point is that if the wishbone is out, and this had been used as a master, then we would all be in the 5shit.
This kind of thing I would accept from a low cost run carried out for LEC members, and yes, I can probably fix it. But for sure I'd be pi55ed if I'd forked out what is it - £800 the pair? - from Lotus.
Still think that if Lotus do hi-jack the thing then it is scant reward for all the hard work put in by Gareth, Dave et al. The least they could do is give you a free pair!

Are there more than 5 sets available right now? I had assumed the initial run was only 5 sets and others would follow in further batches of 5.
If there are more now I'll raid the piggy bank :-D
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Postby GeoffSmith » Sun 17.02.2008, 20:34

Lotus have have recently done Polybush development and suspension work for the Esprit range in conjunction with LEF/LEW. It might be worth talking to Bibs or Kato to see how it worked as I know they had members cars upgraded and tested/optimised at Hethel.

However, if there is any chance of loosing the opportunity to buy at these prices, I'm with the cost conscious majority and will get the wife off to work more often. :twisted:
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Postby RayD » Sun 17.02.2008, 20:59

dapinky wrote:Ray,

Please don't take my comments personally - I appologise if it came across that way :cry:



Sorry Dave, I hadn’t taken it personally – just concern for other people not on the list having their views limited.

It’s a good point about whether the passive 4 wheel steering would continue to work forever.


theelanman wrote:
RayD wrote: are they fitted in such a way that they flex in the same way as bonded rubber bush?


yes.....
the rotation is taken by the stainless tube in the centre of the bush whilst the poly bit of the bush doesnt move at all....



Thanks Gareth,

The original inner sleeves are fixed in position as the nuts are tightened – depending on the length of the new sleeve there might be a need for a bit of modification to allow it to turn.

Ray
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Postby Matt RI » Mon 18.02.2008, 17:31

Gareth,

Thanks for the estimated shipping to the states- I appreciate you taking the time to check that out and account for those of us in the Colonies. I am set to purchase a pair with bushes- so once we have 5 for the next batch, please IM me as to where you want the funds directed.


The "as soon as possible please and where do I send my money" list

1. theelanman ....pd
2. dapinky ......pd
3. esp88 ......Donington
4. rodman ......pd
5. davidjt ......pd
6. paulwatkins
7. Woody
8. Matt RI


The "not now" list:

1. Rip
2. Geoff
3. DeeAitch
4. Se
5. Andy_J
6. Stef
7. A B Munro
8. Dermot Bell
9.S2
10. drasicjazz
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Postby andyhaworth » Mon 25.02.2008, 20:26

Been a while since I last posted, as the Elan was pretty much laid up over the Xmas period

I've been watching this thread with interest though, as I'm toying with putting the Elan out to the track. The one issue I have is (other than the water pump) the rear wishbones. The ones on mine have been welded and beaten, so I dont fancy taking something like Paddock at full tilt

Can whoever's in the know do a roundup of what the price actually is, with bushes, if there's immediate availability and any other Gotchas?

Andy
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Postby theelanman » Fri 29.02.2008, 17:48

wahoo!!!!!!

the first set fitted no problems at all!!!!!
I now have a lovely pair of SS rear wishbones on my car....
I'll try to take some pics.....wel if I can borrow a lift and get under it :-)

the old bolts were a bit rusty on the head as was the end of the bolt threads.....once this was cleaned off and sprayed with wd40 it all came appart no probs......

then it was a ded simple job or bolt the new one back in.....

just got back from the wheels/tyre mans after he checked the alignment and thats all bob on too so I am now a very happy camper indeed

it was all so simple :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Andy
what do you need to know??....
£250 each including bushes (they are to sold as a pair tho for obvious reasons)......
we can do them unbushed if you want to used the lotus bushes...that price is £200 just for the wishbone (the lotus bushes are coming in at £120 per side on top of that)
there is availability when do you want them....
there are 4 more sets to finish for those who have ordered them for Donington........these are definate......if any more are required for Donington then it may or may not be possible just depends on whether there is enough time to make them....the 4 odered already have been factored into the current work load and are possible...extras may not be
hope that answers your questions
cheers
G
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Postby andyhaworth » Fri 29.02.2008, 20:42

Thanks for the info. My need is an urgent one, cars in the garage now and quick decision needed so I'm going to lube up and take the Lotus ones I think.

Thanks anyway, will possibly compare at Donington
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Postby theelanman » Fri 29.02.2008, 21:54

andy
leave it with me......didnt realise it was that desparate.....
I can have a word....although would you want them before Donington??
I'll see what I can do.....might be possible for next weekend....
I'll just need to see if we have enough time to fullfil the existing commitment and if we can then you can have a set that have been made
what do you think???
cheers
g
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Postby Dico » Mon 03.03.2008, 19:35

The "as soon as possible please and where do I send my money" list

1. theelanman ....pd
2. dapinky ......pd
3. esp88 ......Donington
4. rodman ......pd
5. davidjt ......pd
6. paulwatkins
7. Woody
8. Matt RI


The "not now" list:

1. Rip
2. Geoff
3. DeeAitch
4. Se
5. Andy_J
6. Stef
7. A B Munro
8. Dermot Bell
9.S2
10. drasicjazz
11. Dico


Just hope my numbers come up soon 8)
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Postby bratboy_y2k » Mon 24.03.2008, 07:09

hey folks are we any farther ahead here on the poly bushings?
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Postby theelanman » Mon 24.03.2008, 09:53

yep......
the whole project is sorted....
first batch to be delivered next friday/saturday to the lotus show at donington.....
what are you after???.....bushes, bones or the whole thing???
:-D :-D :-D :-D
cheers
G
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Postby Sy V » Mon 24.03.2008, 10:12

Oh he's after bushings, G.
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Postby TrueBlue » Fri 28.03.2008, 07:55

ive lost track of this
my name was on the list at one point

can someone please confirm the total price for these please
including bushes now is it?

and i'll add my name to the list AGAIN :roll:

and one thing i want to know is how do we know that stainless steel is strong enough? surely if it is strong enough lotus would have made them already?

cheers
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Postby Sy V » Fri 28.03.2008, 07:57

OK, someone needs to hold me back now!
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Postby theelanman » Fri 28.03.2008, 10:13

TrueBlue wrote:ive lost track of my name

can someone please confirm the total price.....is it?

and one thing i want to know is how do we know that if shirley is strong

cheers


true blue
£500 for a pair incl bushes
they'll be stronger than the filigree tissue paper ones most people have :-D
ta
G
if youre at donington you can have a look
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Postby andyhaworth » Fri 28.03.2008, 10:29

:-D :lol:
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Postby Monty » Fri 28.03.2008, 13:00

Sy V wrote:OK, someone needs to hold me back now!



Go for it :smt116

:smt117


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