Hard Top - Now Obsolete

[Monty]

Stu,

You utter, utter, ***t.

Some of us appreciate the hard work that has gone into this, and understand the limitations of small run after-market accessories.

Anyone who isn't fixated on their wallet might also pause to reflect on what Simon has done for the Elan community, not only producing the ONLY properly available hard top in 20 years of the Elan, but also producing roll hoops and associated fairings.

Throughout, Simon has made it clear that he's been running this on very tight margins - the roll hoops (get this) because he doesn't want anyone's safety to be compromised by the cost, the hard tops because he's a decent bloke and doesn't want to rip off his fellow Elan enthusiasts.

And you sit there making a fuss about paintwork and the liner because it's not what you'd expect for £1,500, you myopic ingrate. Perhaps you should have gone and bought an MGF or an MX-5 and then you'd have been able to buy factory built accessories. And if they'd had a trivial fault you could have moaned and whinged to your heart's content, because you'd have been moaning to a company's complaints department, and not to a fellow enthusiast who bends over backwards to help all of us out.

The only SP hard top I've seen was superb, incidentally, and I had one factored into next year's Elan budget as a priority.

If, thanks to you, the supply has dried up, I hope that yours comes off in a freak accident and decapitates you, you miserable ****er.

(Polite) Words fail me.

I cannot believe this post! I am shocked by this attack and don't feel it justified. I have been put off this forum recently because of the negativity coming from a growing number of people. I have stuck to a few threads to avoid 'not enjoying the membership'. But before I disappear completely, I think I should say something.

Phil

There`s been a few times i`ve had to bite my lip to some of his replys (i know i`m not the only one) but that statement takes the biscuit, i`m just glad i`m not a Mod as i would be taking steps. To make a statement on something he knows nothing about and hasn`t a clue whats gone on between Stu & Simon is ridiculous.

Don`t get me wrong i think Stu could off put it in a better way or at least give the full story and maybe some pic`s
in his defence he said this was his second hardtop and he still wasn`t happy with it.

I`ve got the CF hardtop which was a prototype so isn`t perfect but i`m happy with it, my lining looks great and i don`t expect simon to produce these off like they were coming of a big production line. The silicone where the water channels are is very difficult to do as its a small gap
So the main issue to me is the paint job which isn`t the end of the world and should be easly resolved instead of getting to this situation

[Enright]

i'm just glad i'm not a Mod as i would be taking steps.

Fair enough Monty - Phil, L.G. and you are right.
I'd tried to be subtle in my initial response to that post, but what should have been seen as a polite "OK you just about got away with that one" was taken as carte blanche to carry on. So this time I'll be serious:

For the record it HAS been noted, IS being discussed and any more posts of this nature will NOT be tolerated. They have no place on this forum.

[clemo]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

[Jackonicko]

I'm extremely sorry to have offended a member who I greatly respect and admire, and who, like Simon is interested in his fellow Elan owners, and is even more generous with his time.

I had already apologised to Stu for my first and last sentences - which were intemperate and posted in haste. I did so publicly and via PM to Stu before anyone criticised the post.

I have now also edited the offending post, and trust that it is now unexceptionable.

But I would stand by my main point - which is that Simon has done a great deal for the community, pretty selflessly, and that what I've seen of his 'product' has been impressive, and that my impression is borne out by the opinion of the vast majority of Simon's customers.

I would also stand by my criticism of anyone who expects 'production line' quality in a limited run after market item.

And while I note Monty's accusation that I 'know nothing about what's gone on between Stu and Simon', I would point out that those that do know had made it clear that Simon had decided to stop selling hardtops specifically because of Stu's 'derogatory comments'.

As someone who has been planning a hard top and roll hoops since before I bought my Elan, you may imagine that I'm angry that one man's public complaints are putting the supply of these in jeopardy. My anger (if not my language) was shared by a succession of mods, one of whom accused him of making absurd accusations and 'planting a knife between Simon's shoulders'.

Meanwhile Gareth (a long standing, seemingly widely respected member) states pretty clearly that he has "heard both sides of the story", that "Simon had done his utmost to help you......including redoing a paint job free of charge that was not done by him........and other things."

You don't need to have been there to gain a good idea of what's been going on. But only a good idea.....

So I had already made some effort to turn down the heat long before Phil's intervention, by reminding everyone that Stus is an Elan fan just like the rest of us, and I underlined his offer of a chance for anyone to go and see his car for themselves, while pointing out that without having done so, none of us really knows whether he's being over-finicky, or whether he has a legitimate complaint, contrary to many expectations.

I apologise for my anger, my language, and for further raising the temperature. I do not apologise for being critical of a selfish complaint that looks as though it will do Elan owners great harm, but I do reiterate my hope that common sense will prevail on all sides...... .

[clemo]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

[tigerdog]

...I apologise for my anger, and for further raising the temperature. I do not apologise for being critical of a selfish complaint that looks as though it will do Elan owners great harm, but I do reiterate my hope that common sense will prevail on all sides...... .

This last post is precisely the kind of reasoned, civil discourse that is a hallmark of our community. Thank you for this change of tone, Jackonicko.

[clemo]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

[tweetdriver63]

i'm just glad i'm not a Mod as i would be taking steps.

Fair enough Monty - Phil, L.G. and you are right.
I'd tried to be subtle in my initial response to that post, but what should have been seen as a polite "OK you just about got away with that one" was taken as carte blanche to carry on. So this time I'll be serious:

For the record it HAS been noted, IS being discussed and any more posts of this nature will NOT be tolerated. They have no place on this forum.

I wasn't going to say anything, since I'm not at all involved in this, but I just want to say that I see nothing so wrong with the substance of Jackonicko's post, just the language. The personal attacks and slurs have no place here. Jacko, I know you were just defending Simon, and upset that the tops aren't going to be available for others now, but dude?

Everybody, if you get an after-market product for your car, even if it's produced by somebody here, you have a right to complain if there's something unsatisfactory about it. You also have a duty to inform other members, so they can make more informed decisions whether to spend their own money on it. Just keep complaints between you and the source. That's not something that should be aired in public. Specially if it's somebody like Simon, I'm certain any problems can be worked out.

I personally would love to have one of those hardtops, but I don't have the financial resources for it right now. If I did get one, however, I know it's not being factory built, and I'd be shocked if it were perfect. I'm also in awe of the man's ability to have even designed it, much less built it himself. If you're expecting perfection from something like this, basically a DIY design, and hand-built, then you need to step back. Think about it a little. Your whole car is roughly 2,400 pounds of hand-built imperfection! That's a huge part of the attraction. If the hard-top didn't have the signs of being hand-built, it just wouldn't be right.

Simon.

[RichardK]

I've just picked up my third hand, bought on fleabay, red SPC hardtop.
I am very, very happy indeed. The design fits the shape of the car so beautifully.


In my opinion the vitrolic attacks have to be moderated. There is no excuse for the sort of language used by Jack....ever.

For Simon to stop producing them would indeed be a great shame and I strongly urge him to reconsider.



Richard

[clemo]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

[Jackonicko]

Clemo,

Apologies, I didn't read your request until after I'd posted, and even had I done so, I did want to make a public apology for the intemperate language and for upping the ante, if not for the substance of what I said.

Again, apologies to you, I really hadn't wanted to ignore your suggestion.


SIMON,

There are plenty of potential customers who absolutely understand what you are selling, and who can guarantee to keep any complaints they might have entirely to themselves, in the most unlikely event that they had anything to complain of.

I urge you to reconsider.

Whether you do or not, thanks so much for everything you've done for the Elan community, from someone who hasn't yet benefited but who hopes eventually to buy every product you've produced!

J

[Nige]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

And again. Let's draw a line under this right now please and move on I think enough has been said to make further debate a substantial waste of noughts and ones.

[Monty]

And again. Let's draw a line under this right now please and move on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[clemo]

DEAR ALL
as neil has said in the above post.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SAY ON THIS POSTING.
WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE ONE MAIN THING IN COMMON .
OUR CARS.
MANY OF US WOULD NEVER USUALLY BE FRIENDS ..AND SOME MAY WELL BE ENEMYS BUT FOR THE GOOD OF THE GREATER CAUSE LETS BE SENSIBLE AND ADULT ABOUT WHAT WE SAY TO EACH OTHER.

I ASK THIS MOST HUMBLY GUYS.
PLEASE PLAY FAIR.

THERE IS PROBABLY NO REAL REASON FOR THEIR TO BE ANYMORE POSTS ON THIS THREAD AS JUST ABOUT EVERY ANGLE HAS BEEN GOT AT.

READ IT
DIGEST IT
DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSION
AND THEN GO AND LOOK AT JOKE OF THE DAY ON THE OFF TOPIC SECTION.

thank you.
clemo

And again. Let's draw a line under this right now please and move on I think enough has been said to make further debate a substantial waste of noughts and ones.

[dapinky]

As I'm sure Dave C is getting fed up with telling you I've taken the liberty of adding a link for you all............

JUST SAY NOTHING MORE - IT'S ALL BEEN SAID, and after all, most of us KNOW nothing much about the situation.......

> > >CLICK HERE for 'joke of the day'< < <

[lotusflasherman]

I've seen this thread and felt a need to respond & I even had to become a member to do so! (I have an Eclat, since 1985, - which in French can mean 'flash', as in sudden occurrence - hence the member-name. Please note: the name does not denote my hobby:-)

I've had an Elan since ordering the 108th Elise, immediately after the Motor Show launch in 1995, and then being told it might be two years before it arrived. The Elan was a stop-gap but turned out to be a more practical everyday car and the Elise got sold as soon as it arrived for a lot more than list price. I'm now on Elan No 2, a Pacific Blue with only 58k miles. The first Calypso Red Elan died at 140,000 miles as it T boned a crazy white van man.

The reason why I have an interest is this topic is I wanted a hardtop for my Elan as I used it for work and security was an issue when parked in hotel car parks overnight. Softops are so vulnerable to the 'slash & grab' idiot with a Stanley Knife. I bookmarked this link years ago when searching for hardtops.

I worked as Consultant to a firm in Dartford during 2005 and called in at NTC cars who had made a couple of prototype hardtops and used to tour the shows to create interest but never got anything into production. They told me they had a problem with the rubber seals supplied being 'open pored'. Water would get soaked up and travel through the seal and get squeezed out inside the car and until that was sorted would not be selling any. They also had a system of the windows fitting up inside a channel in the hardtop. This made the car incredibly quiet and stopped wind and water coming in. The car needed electric central locking and the electric window winders would be wired in through a timer to drop the windows a bit to open the door and would raise the windows to secure the car after the doors were locked. Driver and passenger had to remember to drop the windows a bit before they tried to open the door to get out. Would you think about that if the car caught fire?! I asked what do you do if you've left the car shut for a long time and the battery is completely flat. I got a wide eyed, open mouthed stare as the blood drained from his face. "We haven't considered that".....back to the drawingboard!

Through this thread I found & made contact with Simon C. and bought a hardtop from him in March 2007. It came in white gelcoat with a white headlining so there were no issues with paintwork as it hadn't, & still hasn't, been painted. It fits well, makes the car beautifully quiet and adds greatly to the security if I leave it parked somewhere 'dodgy'. Functionally, which is what Lotus are really about, it is very good, or even excellent. So well done Simon. Cosmetically, - well, I'm not sure I care as I can't see it from inside. All fast cars suffer more from paint chips as the impacts are so much harder. If it's GRP or plastic underneath the paint is only for show so I don't worry about it. My Elan looks like somebody has used a 12 bore shotgun on the front but it has got a Turbo boost Control, Bailey dumpvalve and short throw gearshift so travels cross country faster than most.

My 27 year old son has a pal who is a professional bodyshop paintsprayer who said he'll spray the hardtop for me as a 'private job' . He's looked at it and said 'it will need a bit of preparation, but everything does'. My Elan is Pacific Blue, like Simon's, but my first reaction to match the hardtop to the body has been tempered by the arrival of a blue MX5 with blue hardtop, driven by a blond bimbo, just down the road. I do not want to be mistaken for an MX5! I've been thinking of Silver roof with just the horizontal section behind the window and on the hips in Pacific Blue. The Elan Plus 2S 130/5 had a silver roof so Lotus set the precedent. So far I've been undecided but thanks to the recent issues on this thread I have now decided.

It will be silver with blue bits. That will make it very easy for any future owners of my hardtop to overspray the small blue section to match their cars should I come to sell it.

If Simon has been so pissed off by the criticism that he won't make any more.. Hooray!. I've got mine and I'm very pleased with it. I'll let this forum know when I list my hardtop on ebay. It will have a starting price of £5000 though, because that is the benefit it adds to an Elan and that price will reflect the rarity of them.

So, thanks Simon. I'm very satisfied with mine and think you did a super job. Please enjoy your retirement from hardtop making.

regards, Phil.

[F1 LOTUS]

I
I've had an Elan since ordering the 108th Elise, immediately after the Motor Show launch in 1995, and then being told it might be two years before it arrived. The Elan was a stop-gap but turned out to be a more practical everyday car and the Elise got sold as soon as it arrived for a lot more than list price. I'm now on Elan No 2, a Pacific Blue with only 58k miles. The first Calypso Red Elan died at 140,000 miles as it T boned a crazy white van man.

Uncanny - I had a steel blue car in UK, ordered an Elise before production was started, moved to the USA in November '97, my Elise (dark silver / red leather) was delivered (UK) in December and sold-on without me seeing it, swapped my UK Elan for a red US Elan which t-boned a crazy white Buick. The Elan swap was out of convenience (I had no credit history in the USA!) but turned out to be my daily driver which I took from 56k to its present 140k over the past 10 years
Ain't got a hardtop though

[Nige]

Thank you for the sentiments and welcome to LEC but as we had requested that we move on from this unfortunate discussion I will now lock this thread.