PiperRS 2.25" or 2.5" Exhaust for all M100s

[dapinky]

ME ME ME ME ME

PIPEXH4 please (2.25", no cat or front silencer)

[Nige]

Whilst I have a custom built exhaust I'm very happy with (a copy of the infamous Stan's turbo back system with pre-cat eliminator, flexi section and a small secondary silencer just ahead of the rear wheel) I'm interested in one of these as I'm not wholly convinced that a 2.25" system is going to be quite enough for a car with the turbo upgrade (potentially 300+BHP?). The new exhaust would need to match up with the new downpipe Marie is producing but other than that it would be a standard SE or S2 system back. I particularly like the idea of an optional sports cat, secondary silencer or bypass pipe (I have that option for the main cat at present but rarely change it).

[Breed]

1. Ailwyn - Turbo - with SportCat - PIPEXH1
2. A B Munro - Turbo - No Cat - PIPEXH2
3. Specky - Turbo - No Cat - PIPEXH2
4. Specky - N/A - PIPEXH6
5. G UK - Turbo - with SportCat - PIPEXH1
6. Cesare - Turbo - No Cat - PIPEXH2
7. Freelander - Turbo - No Cat - PIPEXH4 (alternatively PIPEXH2)
8. dapinky - SE - No cat - PIPEXH4
9. rip - SE - PIPEXH4
10.Breed -S2 Turbo-with SportCat-PIPEXH3

These will not have the squashed bit in the front pipe and will have the flex bit similar to Peco.

Regards
Bill

[Enright]

Watch out for something:
I recently bought a 2 1/2" pipe with a flexible secton in it for the front of my system to replace the standard downpipe.
This drops very slightly below the level of the prongeron, and as a result during a bit of spirited driving it appears to have suffered a bit of a ding since fitting, and some of the stainless fibres are now poking out.
It's nowhere near as bad as the system Dico was presented with here:
viewtopic.php?f=79&t=6112&start=144
but I could do with some sort of bash-plate welding to it to prevent further damage.
If you get chance to specify how NOT to do it from the word "go", it's a prime example.

[Breed]

Thanks for that Neil.

Gary from Piper reads this thread and so far he has taken note of of what has been posted. No doubt he will read this and comment.

Bill

[chris.t]

I have just found out that my exhaust system is totally knackered. It has been welded up to keep it in one piece but will need replacing sooner rather than later. Therefore this group buy has now got my full attention.

I have some questions though.

My car has a BBR conversion which i know some don't like. I would like to keep it though. Lakeside who have fitted a high number of these conversions and have never had a problem with them. However will i get problems with this piperRS system such as the dreaded boost creep?

I will need this system fairly soon, therefore what is the expected delivery on the systems. I guess i will be going for the 2 1/4" for the SE.

[Enright]

Chris,

Usually (using a bigger exhaust and the standard or ESM chipped ECU) it's a lottery - you can never quite tell whether or not you'll get fuel cut-off due to excessive boost creep.

But with the BBR having a fuel-cut defender I think you're less likely to see cut-off due to boost creep. However, do not for one moment think that's a good thing.
You're still likely to GET boost creep, but your fuel-cut has already been inhibited so there's nothing to protect your turbo.
This means that the increased airflow clould overspeed the turbo and blow it to bits. Seriously.
Mind you, until that happens you'll have a big grin on your face cos it'll go like a rocket!
It's a case of what's more important to you I guess.
Personally, after having the exhaust fitted I would plumb it back in as standard and drive it like you usually do to see if you hit fuel cut-off. If not, put the BBR back in, and if you do then leave it out until you can get the wastegate ported for safety's sake.

[chris.t]

Chris,

Usually (using a bigger exhaust and the standard or ESM chipped ECU) it's a lottery - you can never quite tell whether or not you'll get fuel cut-off due to excessive boost creep.

But with the BBR having a fuel-cut defender I think you're less likely to see cut-off due to boost creep. However, do not for one moment think that's a good thing.
You're still likely to GET boost creep, but your fuel-cut has already been inhibited so there's nothing to protect your turbo.
This means that the increased airflow clould overspeed the turbo and blow it to bits. Seriously.
Mind you, until that happens you'll have a big grin on your face cos it'll go like a rocket!
It's a case of what's more important to you I guess.
Personally, after having the exhaust fitted I would plumb it back in as standard and drive it like you usually do to see if you hit fuel cut-off. If not, put the BBR back in, and if you do then leave it out until you can get the wastegate ported for safety's sake.

Thanks for the quick reply Neil!

When i ran Elanscan recently my turbo boost pressure was showing that it was capped at 0.714 bar, when going full throttle it never exceeded this figure. In fact for several readings on the trot this is the highest it went. I understand that this figure can be adjusted upwards should i desire it but I want to be kind to her now and have decided not to. If a larger bore exhaust is fitted would i get boost creep if the engine is clearly being limited to 0.714 bar or is Elanscan not giving me the full story. I guess that as the stock setup is 0.65 bar i could deplumb the BBR kit but i won't if i don't have to.

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread to some degree but this is important to me.

[ailwyn]

Chris,

I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that a BBR/MBC managed the boost level independently of the ECU/Wastegate.. if that is the case then putting a bigger exhaust on shouldn't cause boost creap, but like I said, I don't know the details so don't take my word for it.

Boost creep happens because the wastegate can't flow enough exhaust away from the turbine to regulate the boost level, so if you are still relying on the wastegate to regulate boost chances are you'll experience boost creep.

Ailwyn

[chris.t]

Thanks Ailwyn, I guess I really need to know from anyone who has a BBR fitted inconjunction with a 2.25" bore exhaust to hear there thoughts on the subject.

Any idea on delivery for these systems from date of order?

Cheers Chris

[Enright]

Like Ailwyn, I don't know the details of how the BBR fools the ECU, but from what I've heard it's fairly agricultural compared to ESM's chips. As far as I know it simply manipulates the MAP Sensor signal to remove the safety features so that it looks as though the pressure is nowhere near the danger zone (I recall from somewhere that it's just a resistor which lowers the signal).
In other words it lies to the ECU while removing the safety net!
There is no "regulation" of the boost level involved - ask Dico.
That may be what you're already seeing via Elanscan, as you're only able to read what is fed to the ECU.
Chuck in increased airflow which is enough to upset the balance in a standard system, and I think you're playing Russian Roulette with your turbo and head gasket.
I'm not saying "don't buy the exhaust" - far from it. It looks like a great system.
I'm just saying "you can't predict the result" and "you'd be better off removing all doubt until you can verify it".

[Monty]

Thanks Ailwyn, I guess I really need to know from anyone who has a BBR fitted inconjunction with a 2.25" bore exhaust to hear there thoughts on the subject.

Any idea on delivery for these systems from date of order?

Cheers Chris

Chris,

With the BBR you kinda already getting boost creep hence why there`s a FCD fitted, if you don`t want to go to the chip (as you may need to port the wastegate) IMHO the best thing is to leave the FCD in place and remove the BBR bleed thingy-me-jig and use MBC in it`s place so you can adjust the boost level. This is what we did to Dico`s.

A better boost gauge come in handy as the stock one isn`t accurate.

Truthly i think you`ll be ok, but always keep an eye on the boost gauge



BTW, Just to let Piper know that on the Peco system that all the welds were Stainless and the Flexi is also Stainless, the only part that wasn`t is the triangular flange

[ailwyn]

Neil,

As I understand it BBR is a 2 part system, the MBC which sets the boost level (bypassing the BSV) and the FCD wich stops the ECU seeing any boost above "x" psi.

IIRC Dico had a (more) bodged setup - the FCD, bypassed the BSV, but no MBC so the turbo was just boosting without limit.

[chris.t]

Neil,

As I understand it BBR is a 2 part system, the MBC which sets the boost level (bypassing the BSV) and the FCD wich stops the ECU seeing any boost above "x" psi.

IIRC Dico had a (more) bodged setup - the FCD, bypassed the BSV, but no MBC so the turbo was just boosting without limit.

ah right so Elanscan is not showing the true boost pressure - only what FCD allows it to. Thought it was a bit strange getting 0.714 bar max. The boost gauge goes to 1 bar although i do relise that the gauges cannot be trusted.

[chris.t]

BTW, Just to let Piper know that on the Peco system that all the welds were Stainless and the Flexi is also Stainless, the only part that wasn`t is the triangular flange

Is it necessary to have flexi. I talked to lakeside about this and they said that when they have any failures its generally at the flex. So it would be better to be solid throughout.

[Monty]

BTW, Just to let Piper know that on the Peco system that all the welds were Stainless and the Flexi is also Stainless, the only part that wasn`t is the triangular flange

Is it necessary to have flexi. I talked to lakeside about this and they said that when they have any failures its generally at the flex. So it would be better to be solid throughout.

Chris, the lakeside are talking a load off rubbish. The Stock system is well known for cracking at the down pipe hence the reason the aftermarket fit a flexi to prevent this + Peco gave a life time garrantee (which obvioulsy is a waste of time if they go bump) so i`m sure they wouldn`t fit a flexi if they thought it was going to fail.

[chris.t]

BTW, Just to let Piper know that on the Peco system that all the welds were Stainless and the Flexi is also Stainless, the only part that wasn`t is the triangular flange

Is it necessary to have flexi. I talked to lakeside about this and they said that when they have any failures its generally at the flex. So it would be better to be solid throughout.

Chris, the lakeside are talking a load off rubbish. The Stock system is well known for cracking at the down pipe hence the reason the aftermarket fit a flexi to prevent this + Peco gave a life time garrantee (which obvioulsy is a waste of time if they go bump) so i`m sure they wouldn`t fit a flexi if they thought it was going to fail.

emmm i guess if the flex does go its better than a solid pipe cracking anyway. Will there be a lifetime gaurantee on the piper system?

[PiperRS]

Good morning all.

Looks like we got a good response. I still cant see Peco selling their system anywhere so am happy to continue with the 2.25" development also.

We have already spoken to Bill about getting his car in for the final development and have his pride and joy booked in for Monday 13th October for 2 weeks. We aim to have it completed before the 2 weeks is up and production will be avaliable at the end of those 2 weeks so i would aim to deliver everyones orders by Tuesday 31st October. I hope these dates suit everyone and know you would have liked it sooner but we just cant get it in due to other comitments, as Bill saw when he came down on Friday.

In order to confirm this as a job and as mentioned earlier i do need 10 orders taken before the car comes in for development. The way i plan to operate this is to ask all those interested to call me and place thier order, i will take a 50% deposit at the time of order with the balance being taken just before the exhaust is dispatched. Sadly if we do not get the 10 orders before Bills car comes in i will need to cancel the booking until we have enough orders.

As already discussed we are going to offer a 10% discount on the first group of orders including Bills car. This means the prices shall be as follows:

2.5"
PIPEXH1 - 2.5" system - suit Turbo - With Sports cat in front
PIPEXH2 - 2.5" system - suit Turbo - Without Sports cat or silencer in front (as Peco)
PIPEXH7 - 2.5" system - suit Turbo - With silencer in front
2.25"
PIPEXH3 - 2.25" system - suit turbo - With Sports cat in front
PIPEXH4 - 2.25" system - suit Turbo - Without Sports cat or silencer in front (as Peco)
PIPEXH8 - 2.25" system - suit Turbo - With silencer in front

Prices.
PIPEXH1 - LEC Special price - £470.00 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £423.00
PIPEXH2 - LEC Special price - £352.50 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £317.25
PIPEXH7 - LEC Special price - £387.75 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £348.98
PIPEXH3 - LEC Special price - £411.25 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £370.13
PIPEXH4 - LEC Special price - £293.75 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £264.38
PIPEXH8 - LEC Special price - £329.00 - Special Group buy 1st order Price = £296.10

Please note that these prices INCLUDE vat at 17.5% and will be carriage free for all who purchase in the initial batch, saving £15.00.

These will come with a lifetime guarantee for the purchaser of the exhaust.

So, lets start a register of who has placed their order and for what parts. I shall update this as i hear from people
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I hope this is all okay and look forward to speaking with you all soon.

[chris.t]

Garry, does the gaurantee cover the flex?

[Freelander]

Garry, you are really getting the hang of this Forum - we all love another list!

"So, lets start a register of who has placed their order and for what parts. I shall update this as i hear from people "
1) Freelander - PIPEXH4 - asap
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