Track rod ends

[RayD]

.........

"The SKF Bearing BAHB 311396B can be found in the Wheel Bearing Kit, Part Number QWB436
QWB436 is listed in our catalogue for Lotus Elan 1.6,1.6 Turbo 1990-1995"

There you go Geoff,

Ray

[DeeAitch]

.........

"The SKF Bearing BAHB 311396B can be found in the Wheel Bearing Kit, Part Number QWB436
QWB436 is listed in our catalogue for Lotus Elan 1.6,1.6 Turbo 1990-1995"

There you go Geoff,

Ray

See Download here

I'd like to know if QMB436 is the same

[RayD]

You've lost me Dave, where does QMB436 come from?

[DeeAitch]

You've lost me Dave, where does QMB436 come from?

Ooops, Dyslexia kicked in Sorry

Please note QWB436 is also used on Astra / Cavalier etc

[Readit]

As size is everything in this discussion. Here is an original drawing of the Lotus Elan M100 ball joint, kindly provided by Adwest Engineering.
They no longer provide parts for the Elan.

balljoint2.jpg

[GeoffSmith]

Excellent information. It would be worth Ray passing it on to QH.

[Freelander]

Is there any significance to the TRE being drawn 'upside down'?
The smaller scale GA also shows the TRE inverted.

[RayD]

Excellent information. It would be worth Ray passing it on to QH.

I'll do that Geoff.

Ray

[RayD]

Here is part of the email exchange with Quinton Hazel...

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the drawing, it has helped to confirm my findings.

Unfortunately, having checked available data, I have not been able to identify a suitable part in the QH range for you.

It is definitely not QR1785S, which has a 1:8 taper on the ball pin (Sample is 1:6), although everything else is very similar.

A 1:6 taper is not a popular taper and used only on a very limited number of tie rod ends.

The logo on the original part identifies that it is manufactured by a company called LEMFÖRDER who are part of the ZF Trading SACHS/BOGE Group.

Their website is http://www.sachs-boge.co.uk/

Maybe they will be able to help you more.

I will return the sample back to John today.

Sorry I have not been able to help you in this instance.




Hi ......
If I could just double check a few things...
The sample and the drawing are the same.
They are both 1in 6 tapers.
None of the Quinton Hazel TRE’s are 1 in 6.
All QH TRE tapers are 1 in 8 or 1 in10

Regards
Ray


Hi Ray,

Confirm that the sample and the drawing are the same, both having a 1:6 taper.
The majority of QH Tie Rod Ends are either 1:8 or 1:10 tapers.
There are <10 QH Tie Rod Ends with a 1:6 taper, but the other dimensions do not match the sample and could not be used.

ends.



So...there's a bit more work to do.

Thanks very much to John (Freelander) and Ken (Readit) for your help.

Ray

[GeoffSmith]

Hmmm. I've tried the taper on the VW one I have and can confirm it does not fit the hub carrier.

So...there's a bit more work to do.

Bit of an understatement there Ray! Let's just recap: QH supply hundreds of TREs for most UK, European and Far Eastern cars. Only 6 have 1:6 tapers. None of them fit. Short of reaming the hub carrier out and finding a TRE similar to the VW (but with a slightly wider pin), it's beginning to look like we need to find an American source. Bugger.

Nice work so far though and definitely worth getting to the bottom of - if anyone other than John and Ken have replaced their TREs with non-Lotus parts, it would be worth checking what was used and maybe Ray could confirm with QH whether they were 1:6 taper.

[Freelander]

Good effort Ray,
So its back to the drawing board - but at least we now have a drawing!
We could try Lemforder for the part no / supplier - the part may not be in production but there may be remaining stock.
Modern automotive contracts require service spares for up to 15 years from end of production.
Assuming QH can identify a suitable TRE, would it be practical to drill out the track control arm and provide an insert for the 1 in 8 taper?

[ailwyn]

Now I'm probably talking out of my a**e, but...

I think I'm right in thinking that these attach to the steering rack?

There's no known (non-Lotus) source for the steering rack?

Wouldn't it be a better idea to try and get (even if custom made) steering rack + track rod ends to replace the originals?

If we try and source individual parts then this is always going to cause us to hit Lotus quirky specs on each item, however, if we can source a replacement PAS steering system (from column to wheel or even column as well) then we should in theory have a wider choice/less limitations?

Ailwyn

[Monty]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to try and get (even if custom made) steering rack + track rod ends to replace the originals?

or buy the full lot off the sales list

[ailwyn]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to try and get (even if custom made) steering rack + track rod ends to replace the originals?

or buy the full lot off the sales list

How does that help us going forwards? After the next Lotus sale there probably won't be many parts stocked by Lotus for the M100 (when will people realise that they don't actually give a damn about the M100 as there is no money to be made there?), and most of what is currently on the list will probably be available on ebay through one of the caring/sharing independents.

Sooner or later these parts along with a lot of others will be obsolete.. wouldn't it be better to expend resources now trying to find as many common replacements as possible?

[GeoffSmith]

I can't believe for one minute that Lotus went out and had a bespoke TRE made up. I think the source is from Uncle Sam's GM bin - I just hope we find it!

If we don't, I would consider reaming out the taper to 1:8 or 1:10 and with Ray's QH contact, work out a suitable common alternative.

[bobbrown]

I think the track rod ends are more related to the hub carrier than the rack it's self.
If we could identify where this came from it may help to identify the track rod ends.
Most front wheel drive cars are on McPherson struts and the hub carrier we have seems to come from a car with wish bone front suspension and most front wheel drive cars have the strut connect to the top of the hub carrier and they then pivot at the top of the strut.

Geoff may well be correct in that it may be out of the US GM pot or even Japan

Bob

[Monty]

Wouldn't it be a better idea to try and get (even if custom made) steering rack + track rod ends to replace the originals?

or buy the full lot off the sales list

How does that help us going forwards? After the next Lotus sale there probably won't be many parts stocked by Lotus for the M100 (when will people realise that they don't actually give a damn about the M100 as there is no money to be made there?), and most of what is currently on the list will probably be available on ebay through one of the caring/sharing independents.

Sooner or later these parts along with a lot of others will be obsolete.. wouldn't it be better to expend resources now trying to find as many common replacements as possible?

It wasn`t to help us go forward, it was just a better idea than yours You need to Chill

There`s no need to have a custom rack made as racks can be refurbed, if your going to have any thing custom made then it would be the TRE. If it turns out that there`s no cross ref then maybe the hub carrier can be drilled out and a Insert made to fit an off the shelf TRE

Geoff,
I`m just wondering about the Bespoke comment, the new rack comes with the TRE but doesn`t come with the UJ so i`m just wondering were they supplying the TRE cause there not off the self jobbie

Actually the rack i`ve removed from Pinky had new TRE fitted by the previous owner, wonder where he got them from . I`ll have a look through the history to see if i can find an invoice.

[GeoffSmith]

I think the track rod ends are more related to the hub carrier than the rack it's self.
If we could identify where this came from it may help to identify the track rod ends.
Most front wheel drive cars are on McPherson struts and the hub carrier we have seems to come from a car with wish bone front suspension and most front wheel drive cars have the strut connect to the top of the hub carrier and they then pivot at the top of the strut.

Geoff may well be correct in that it may be out of the US GM pot or even Japan

Bob

Bob, I checked last week and realised it has the Lotus part number cast into it, so I think it's to Lotus' design.

[GeoffSmith]

Actually the rack i`ve removed from Pinky had new TRE fitted by the previous owner, wonder where he got them from . I`ll have a look through the history to see if i can find an invoice.

SJs sell them for £67 + VAT!

[bobbrown]

You could use a rod end for a track rod end

a1216.jpg

Ok it would need the correct spacing, taper and a boot but all easily made or purchased.