Track rod ends

[Specky]

Personally I wouldn't touch them

but it's only my opinion, I used to change several of those a week due the poor design... The later versions which have ceramic coated bearings are much better..but they tend to chip and after a while they too turn into a babies rattle...

but what to use as a replacement is the question..

TTFN

[bobbrown]

Personally I wouldn't touch them

but it's only my opinion, I used to change several of those a week due the poor design... The later versions which have ceramic coated bearings are much better..but they tend to chip and after a while they too turn into a babies rattle...

but what to use as a replacement is the question..

TTFN

I have used steel on steel ones in the past with very few problems, but have seen the ones with surface coating end up as you say babies rattles.
Steel on steel does not suffer these proplems as they are much the same as what is on the inside of the standard TRE.
Just knew it was going to get some sort of comment!

[Specky]

Personally I wouldn't touch them

but it's only my opinion, I used to change several of those a week due the poor design... The later versions which have ceramic coated bearings are much better..but they tend to chip and after a while they too turn into a babies rattle...

but what to use as a replacement is the question..

TTFN

I have used steel on steel ones in the past with very few problems, but have seen the ones with surface coating end up as you say babies rattles.
Steel on steel does not suffer these proplems as they are much the same as what is on the inside of the standard TRE.
Just knew it was going to get some sort of comment!

I suppose it's my personal hatered of these eye ends...

I've spent hours,days or accumatively months doing bloomin DTI checks.... (axial,longitudinal and then radial checks) just because the steel ones failed so fast...

I used to give them to our training department when the were out of limits, but they've now got so many they just get thrown...

Then again if I could design a better system I wouldn't be going to work at 6 in the morning...

TTFN

[bobbrown]

Most rod ends have a bearing surface that fail very quickly in this sort of application.
The ones I have used in the past are of hardened steel and no other material is involved in their construction so apart from wear there is nothing to fail and they are stronger than the compnents they are attached to.
I have done several event in Ireland on this type without changing one.

[Specky]

Most rod ends have a bearing surface that fail very quickly in this sort of application.
The ones I have used in the past are of hardened steel and no other material is involved in their construction so apart from wear there is nothing to fail and they are stronger than the compnents they are attached to.

I'll bring several up to Hethel so people can see what I'm on about...( Full hardened steel eye ends that have in the worst case popped the gages and badly worn ceramic)

It's an intresting thread that people could do with something to see and touch... It's a shame photo's can't get the issues accross...

TTFN

[bobbrown]

The rod ends I am talking about are made from two parts only, no cages, no ceramic, no brass, not ptfe, nothing just two bits of steel.

[Specky]

The rod ends I am talking about are made from two parts only, no cages, no ceramic, no brass, not ptfe, nothing just two bits of steel.

That could be the difference...

Could you post a pic as I have never seen a two piece steel eye-end

We use two types...

One is 99.9% identical as per your picture... Three pieces (may be more, I'm not sure If it's a one piece Gage)... Eye end,inner and outer bearing which are pressed as an assembly into the eye end...

The other is exactly the same but a ceramic coated bearing...

I'll take a picture today, but it will be in situ...

TTFN

[bobbrown]

Some thing like these but the ones we used in the past you could remove the ball as it had two slots in the housing such that if you rotated the ball 90 degrees you could remove it.
These have no inner bearing material to get smashed out of the rod end which is what happens to four piece rod ends in this application.

rod end.jpg

[Specky]

A stroke of luck... I had to disconect some today...

It was a shame I did n't have to remove the ends thou..

These are few shots of two different eye ends we use, they are of the stainless steel ceramic coated varient, the stainless steel ones are quite rare due to the affor mentioned wear...

There's a few thou wear on these, but nothing to write home about, well within limits... The apparent wear is just brown staining on the coating.. a quirk of ceramic I guess..

Apologises for the quality of the pics but the camera isn't great...

TTFN

[Specky]

Just found this on tinters...(This is my day job)

Bear in mind we changed from steel to ceramic

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf_gb/home/s ... tId=081366

http://evolution.skf.com/zino.aspx?articleID=14875

TTFN

[Freelander]

Response received from ZF - Lemforder - TRE part number.

On our central database we do not list any parts for Elans, only for the Elise, Exige and Esprit models. It's possible that this part was supplied to Adwest but the vehicle it was used for was not registered and therefore cannot be tracked using the vehicle model. I cannot find a match to the supplier trade mark number either, it's possible this is Adwest's mark rather than a Lemförder one. For these reasons I have forwarded your drawing to my colleagues at factories in the UK and Germany, in the hope they can identify the part dimensionally. Unfortunately, this may take a while.
Once I have a response from them I will come back to you.

Can anyone confirm the TREs used for other Lotus models?
Otherwise, lets hope that part number / supplier can be identified.

[GeoffSmith]

Nice work. Fingers crossed.

[RayD]

In conjunction with John (Freelander), while he was contacting ZF – Lemforder I asked Quinton Hazel what the possibilities were of having some made using the QR1785S VW track rod end with a modified 1 in 6 centre spindle....

Hi Ray,

Sorry for the delay in replying to you.

I have passed on your inquiry to the Product Manager - Steering & Suspension

Unfortunately, we normally work on a minimum batch quantity of 500+ for manufacturing purposes.

However, we are still trying to find alternative sources for the tie rod end and Ian will contact you if successful.

Ray

[RayD]

Update...

Not yet, Ray. I've reminded our supplier about it a few times but to no avail. They have confirmed that it is one of theirs but are struggling to identify it. We are expecting a visit from them tomorrow so I will broach the subject once again.

Regards

Ian Boyle
Product manager
Steering & Suspension Products

Ray

[Freelander]

Update: ZF-Lemforder

Your enquiry has been passed to me by Alan Clarke - I'm the product manager for Lemförder steering & suspension.
On our central database we do not list any parts for Elans, only for the Elise, Exige and Esprit models. It's possible that this part was supplied to Adwest but the vehicle it was used for was not registered and therefore cannot be tracked using the vehicle model. I cannot find a match to the supplier trade mark number either, it's possible this is Adwest's mark rather than a Lemförder one. For these reasons I have forwarded your drawing to my colleagues at factories in the UK and Germany, in the hope they can identify the part dimensionally. Unfortunately, this may take a while.
Once I have a response from them I will come back to you. If you have any questions or additional information in the meantime please contact me.
Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Sam. Butterworth BA (Hons)
Senior Product Manager

Ray, do we have the full drawing or original drawing number / any further information?

[Freelander]

Just found this following email in my junk mail

My contacts in Germany say that the drawing supplied is not a complete drawing. Apparently, they recognise it as a Lemförder drawing (how I'm not sure) but the essential bit that would identify the part is missing. Do you have anything more than the detail supplied with your original query? For internal purposes we have engineering numbers in the format xxx xxx xxx xxx. Alternatively, do you have access to one of the ball joints, if so could you give me descriptions of any markings or codes on it. A genuine Lemförder will have a triangle symbol marked into the end cap. The bellows having a triangle symbol doesn't mean that the complete unit is Lemförder as we supply bellows to fellow OE manufacturing companies.
Might I also ask if you have placed this enquiry with other companies? QH have approached us for the same part with the same drawing.
Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Sam. Butterworth BA (Hons)
Product Manager - Lemförder / Produkt Manager - Lemförder

Ray, I will respond and let him know that the two enquiries are from the same origin. I have an original Lemforder TRE (with triangle symbol) and will take photos to verify. The full drawing or drawing number would be very useful.

John

[GeoffSmith]

I have a brand new Lotus one in front of me - there is a triangle (with a penguin or barrel inside?) and the number 24 and the letters HFC. The rubber boot has the codes 022 000 046 012, 03012, 250 104 & 1-7.

[RayD]

Thanks John, Geoff,

As Ken (Readit) supplied the original, he may be best placed to identify the full drawing. I’ll send him a PM.

Ray

[Readit]

Sorry I have not replied sooner I have been busy lately. Unfortnately I have no further details of the Adwest Engineering drawing , it was e-mailed to me and passed on in the same form. Here are pics of the marks on an OEM part.

stamp1.jpg

stamp2.jpg

[RayD]

Thank you Ken,

Ray