PiperRS 2.25" or 2.5" Exhaust for all M100s

[GeoffSmith]

Excellent clarification, couldn't have asked for anything more definitive than that. Thanks Dave.

Shame it's a load of bollocks and I have something more definitive! The reason I was asking the question of Ailwyn is that on my computerised (and therefore not wrong) Sun DGA 2500 printout of my single CO limit, the value is 3.5% (and 1200 ppm for hydrocarbons). So, what does yours say Ailwyn?

PS I'm not arsed anyway, because my non-anecdotal value is 0.432% and would meet the lower level anyway!

[dapinky]

I can only go on the legislation, i can't comment on how the carrot cruncher garages of South Gloucestershire work

Also, the VOSA test stations only run on the VIN number, or they can input index number and X-ref with DVLA database (which may be different).

[GeoffSmith]

S2s were obviously built by amateurs!

[ailwyn]

Mine is down as something like 0.3, which is the S2 CO limit (I remembered because it's a tenth of the SE limit). The 3.5 relates to the SE, and if you are being tested to that level the MOT tester is not doing his job properly (although that may be to your liking) and technically your car could still fail a properly conducted MOT.

Like I said, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence about S2s passing the emissions de-catted, but I've yet to see anyone claim proof that the S2 limit can be met without a cat.

[ailwyn]

The type approval would have set the CO limit, the 0.5% would be a max for any car, otherwise they wouldn't need to know the make/model, just the year.

[GeoffSmith]

Haynes says:

22 CO emissions (mixture): At the time of writing, for vehicles first used between 1st August 1975 and 31st July 1986 (P to C registration), the CO level must not exceed 4.5% by volume. For vehicles first used between 1st August 1986 and 31st July 1992 (D to J registration), the CO level must not exceed 3.5% by volume. Vehicles first used after 1st August 1992 (K registration) must conform to the manufacturer's specification. The MOT tester has access to a DOT database or emissions handbook, which lists the CO and HC limits for each make and model of vehicle. The CO level is measured with the engine at idle speed, and at "fast idle". The following limits are given as a general guide: At idle speed - CO level no more than 0.5% At "fast idle" (2500 to 3000 rpm) - CO level no more than 0.3% (minimum oil temperature 60ºC) If the CO level cannot be reduced far enough to pass the test (and the fuel and ignition systems are otherwise in good condition) then the carburettor is badly worn, or there is some problem in the fuel injection system or catalytic converter (as applicable).

23 HC emissions: With the CO within limits, HC emissions for vehicles first used between 1st August 1975 and 31st July 1992 (P to J registration) must not exceed 1200 ppm. Vehicles first used after 1st August 1992 (K registration) must conform to the manufacturer's specification. The MOT tester has access to a DOT database or emissions handbook, which lists the CO and HC limits for each make and model of vehicle. The HC level is measured with the engine at "fast idle". The following is given as a general guide: At "fast idle" (2500 to 3000 rpm) - HC level no more than 200 ppm (minimum oil temperature 60ºC)
Excessive HC emissions are caused by incomplete combustion, the causes of which can include oil being burnt, mechanical wear and ignition/fuel system malfunction.

So my non-anecdotal figure of 0.432% at the top of this page would only meet the fast idle figure and not the idle level of 0.3% (bum steer Pinky!). I did ask the question at my first MoT but was told that it was from the DoT database so I had no need to question it and I'm not going to probe too deeply. We went through a similar discussion a few years ago and at least one other S2 was tested to the same level, so maybe it's a Welsh thing.

Careering firmly back on topic, have you any experience of Microcat Garry?

[RichardK]

Finally managed to get my exhaust sorted I really couldn't wait any longer - my original was full of holes.

Easily fitted (clear instructions), great sound, a really surprising performance jump both on and off boost - with plenty of boost creep ( I have the 2.5" system) now waiting for LGM's turbo to take care of that. I really do need that V5 switcher.....

Very impressed and very happy - Many thanks to Garry at Piper.

[dapinky]

So my non-anecdotal figure of 0.432% at the top of this page would only meet the fast idle figure and not the idle level of 0.3% (bum steer Pinky!).

Get your eyesight tested!

The max limit for cat equipped cars (or ones which *should* have one), ie 1st Registered after 01/08/1992 is 0.5% CO at idle (0.3% at fast idle) - this applies to 'factory built' cars - amateur built ones didn't change from the previous 3.5% CO until 1st August 1998.

so which bit was the bum steer?

[GeoffSmith]

so which bit was the bum steer?

Anything post August '92 has to be below 0.5% CO, and manufacturers enabled their cars to get that low by various means - most notably using a cat.

As such, it doesn't have to have a cat, but it does have to be below 0.5% CO

That one - I hadn't read your first one!

However, I must admit that I misread the figures at lunchtime and assumed that 0.3% was for slow idle and 0.5% was for fast idle, which is good news, because my 0.432% at idle is compliant. It will be interesting to see Ailwyn's results for both tests.

[dapinky]

That one - I hadn't read your first one!

....and yet you managed to quote the bit from that post about being built by amateurs


anyway, having decided that Geoff is going (gone?) senile, but still wants to be right, lets get back to the point - Ailwyn, it would be interesting to know what figures yours were on the day.

[GeoffSmith]

There's a difference between scanning and reading....... isn't there? All right then, wibble. Send the padded van round.

[Enright]

Light blue touchpaper, retreat to a safe distance, and then just enjoy the show!
Thanks chaps...

[GeoffSmith]

[dapinky]

Always happy to entertain - after all, with my footy team, i ain't used to that much entertainment (but then, nor is Smiffy )

[rip]

plenty of boost creep ( I have the 2.5" system) now waiting for LGM's turbo to take care of that. I really do need that V5 switcher......

With upgraqded injectors, MAP sensor & custom programs to take the boost above 1BAR I suspect

Very impressed and very happy - Many thanks to Garry at Piper.

Another happy customer. I think Garry has scored many recommendations with this project.

[ektrolleyboy]

I'm going to get one of these PIPER units soon.
I've contacted PAUL MATTY via E-mail about porting my waste-gaste and asked how long it would take and how much it would cost etc. But I think they got the wrong end of the stick and have mentioned re-boost kits and the like and quoted me 1000 GBP! Hmmm...

Can anyone recommend someone to fit my exhaust and port my waste-gate (that won't screw the job up) in the Birmingham/Midlands area?
And how long/how much should a job like his cost?

[ailwyn]

For porting the wastegate you can read removal and re-fitting the turbo + grinding the wastegate + any remedial work to the turbo e.g. removing snapped studs.

Replacing the exhaust will take 1-2 hours.

I would be surprised if it takes less than 8 hours, possibly more.

PMSC may have misunderstood what you were asking for. I would suggest a phonecall or a detailed email explaining what you mean by porting the wastegate.

In order to help you out - increasing the diameter of the exhaust wastegate opening from 16mm to 20mm.

[rip]

I wouldn't rush into porting your wastegate.
Every Elan is different. Your creep may not be 'bad' enough to induce overboost.
I like my boost creep. It has increased my boost but I can easily control the amount of creep with my right foot. Even at 100% throttle in 5th gear, overboost did not occur until 108mph & I was deliberately trying to induce it. A slight backing off on the throttle & I would have been fine while still having plenty of power.

[chris.t]

I wouldn't rush into porting your wastegate.
Every Elan is different. Your creep may not be 'bad' enough to induce overboost.
I like my boost creep. It has increased my boost but I can easily control the amount of creep with my right foot. Even at 100% throttle in 5th gear, overboost did not occur until 108mph & I was deliberately trying to induce it. A slight backing off on the throttle & I would have been fine while still having plenty of power.

didn't know you were into track days Rip

[paulwatkins]

I wouldn't rush into porting your wastegate.
Every Elan is different. Your creep may not be 'bad' enough to induce overboost.
I like my boost creep. It has increased my boost but I can easily control the amount of creep with my right foot. Even at 100% throttle in 5th gear, overboost did not occur until 108mph & I was deliberately trying to induce it. A slight backing off on the throttle & I would have been fine while still having plenty of power.

But how do you know when you're aproaching the fuel-cut limit?

Don't tell me you're keeping a very close eye on the not very accurate boost gauge.........while doing 108mph!

If you're going through the twisties, you wont be looking at the gauge, and you dont want to hit fuel-cut then!

Rip, now dont be so lazy......whip off the turbo and port the wastegate