AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby dapinky » Sun 04.01.2009, 15:13

Now, I go off topic as often as many, more than most, but not as much as some........

That said, i do agree with Ailwyn here....

....I haven't actually counted, but i'm sure that if I did, there would be perhaps more than a dozen recent (within last 6 months) threads which have wondered all over the place, but have all started out on the thorney subject of Elan suspension. (also a fair few from EKTB who is now a pot turned kettle in saying that TWR is contradicting himself :roll: ).

I actually believe that the standard set-up is more than adequate for road use, given a sensible (not necessarily gifted/tallented) driver who can appreciate the limitations of himself, the car and the road conditions. As such, i would offer myself in the blue elan as aa shining beacon to all road users ;-)

That said, many people want to use the car on track, and i don't believe any of them actually expect to see themselves overtaking many elise/exiges by putting a set of shocks on the car, but rather they will be trying to improve the experience for themselves, and cut down their own times as oposed to worrying about how quick was Sir Stirling Moss.

Many may wish to have the same settings for road use, or at least be prepared to put up with the diminished comfort on the for the increased confidence on the track (or twisty country lanes, if you want to drive lots faster than is safe/sensible).

Like TWR, Ray and Bob, i have spent many years tinkering with settings, some of which i understood, some i learned along the way, and some which i have only recently been educated on, but i am still learning!

My position has been stated already - Angie likes her car the way it is set-up at the moment, I prefer mine - but if i can find a reasonable cost way to keep the comfort and increase the confidence in roadholding, then great. If it happens to be a set of custom dual rate springs with currently available shocks, or even adapted shocks to take currently available springs, or a totally new bilstein/eibach system, so be it - but i'm also pretty sure that not many other people would want what i do - For example, Nige would want/need something different for his track S2, Monty will want his SE better on track, Dico will spend all his money on something else to keep in the shed (pots/kettles again :oops: )...

.... but they/we are all starting from different baselines - Nige has had his car from new, and it has been looked after, Monty has heavilly modified his, Dico never takes his out, and mine has had a hundred owners, covered a million miles and gets to stay outside, and get used, every day........so at the end of the day, we all want/need something a bit different, but all want an improvement - well, no-one said this project would be quick or easy, so lets just see where it goes, and please.........


.....try and play nice :?
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby ektrolleyboy » Sun 04.01.2009, 16:53

Did anyone see EASTENDERS last night?
I've not seen it for a while but I hear Nasty NIck's coming back. I thought he was dead!

Erm... Now what was that thingy about going off topic? :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby theelanman » Sun 04.01.2009, 17:59

ektrolleyboy wrote:Did anyone see EASTENDERS last night?
I've not seen it for a while but I hear Nasty NIck's coming back. I thought he was dead!

Erm... Now what was that thingy about going off topic? :wink: :wink: :wink:


mmmmm....now yer just being daft......
whats the point of that?....
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby thewheelrestorer » Sun 04.01.2009, 20:17

Blimey ! some of you have been busy.........I best describe myself more clearly...........

The problem with emails and forum messages etc...is you cannot see the person or persons you're effectively talking to? and hence it's difficult to get a tone or hints of wit .
And I do also wonder sometimes if the average age of this forum or certainly the ones that "chip in" most of the time could be 60 for all I know?

EKtrolleyboy says Chill, and I think this is a good point.

If you're discussing an area of a car and you continue to disucss another area of the car or driving which is very relevant to handling etc...then surely this isn't a problem?, its not quite like asking who likes pistachio ice cream is it!!

I've been a member of approx 5 other forums and the "wandering" thing happens all the time, it's quite normal.

As I was chopsing on about tuning for the road, for someone to then come across my car for sale and ask is it, is a fair point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ektrolleyboy
But... Before, you were saying that you wanted more from the car because it didn't give you enough! Certainly in the suspension dept. And now you're saying the opposite?


Reads as if you think the car has everything and your reasons for the sale correspond...


The Elan is for sale so you can go and buy yourself a 1.1 Peugeot 206 or the like?



The car had some issues that needed addressing from the day I purchased it, the loose seat, slack rear wheel bearings, and poor tyres on the 16" S2 Rims did not allow me to be able to drive it hard at all. Once the slop was all fixed and I changed the wheels to 17" with brand new rubber only then did I start to get into it more. I always take a very long time to tune in to a new car or a new ractrack, it's my biggest weakness as a driver. My biggest strength though is when I do get in the groove ....I'm on it big time.

I have since over xmas had more time (Usually I work from 8 to 8 every day except sunday) and I've done several test sessions since, the shocks, springs and bushes etc... are worn no question and do need replacing, but with the stiff wide wheels and tyres are my current (essential) complience for the road and the soft suspension is not too bad a set up in the cold and damp weather we've had here in wales..........so I've adapted to it now more...and I also drive it's current condition (worn suspension) accordingly........... I

A successful Circuit racers goal is to not make the car do anything silly, you learn to not go too hot into a bend and expect it to stick, you learn that sideways looks cool, but its actually very slow and your not competitve but just spectacular for the crowd!! Grip is feel, everytime it rains I win trophies............in the dry sometimes.......I'm fortunate to have this as others spin off...........
So I drive fast within the limits of the car and the conditions on public roads but with no dramas, unyet I can still outrun most folk on the road when they want to have a play! This is the problem........... this speed I circulate at in a road car feels very very slow in comparison to Racing 120mph an inch off the floor in a Gearox Racing Kart, or accelerating and cornering at 2-3G etc...(I won't go off subject !!!)......I do not drive like a loony at all, sometimes loonies go past me on a straight where I back off at 75mph.....I do not do high speeds on the road it's far too dangerous a risk. Hence the comment there is not an ambulance available for you if you do dick about on the road and go off!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
theelanman
in which case stick to track driving

I will get back there but it needs a lot of time and dedication, and right now my business is priority. The Elan was just purchased as an excuse to have a bit of play...


I wrote:
I can't help but drive a car relatively hard on the road and this is not possible due to many problems....... too much traffic, camera's, licence, idiots, & obsticles like parked cars, skips etc..but the biggest problem is the road does not have an ambulance able to reach you within 1 minute if you go over the limit or are involved in an accident!!

doesnt sound very sensible....


As explained above


i also wrote:
Any sports road car with some power is too dangerous for me as I wil want to use it, the Elan is already becoming too risky as I keep pushing it and pushing it and unless you do something stupid the bitting point is very high, which is also why I've asked what exactly do people want more of? in the handling department...because there are only so many risks you can take on the public roads.

what kind of statement/view is that?.....I dont know any car from the smallest and cheapest to the biggest and most expensive that has this suspension youre talking of....a suspension that can cope with the power of the engine and the idiot behind the wheel.......think what youre after is a 2cv.......


.........sure anything with a bit of poke is too tempting for me to try and see how it fares with a bit of spirited driving, I've been running a Van for almost 2 years so I've done very well to stay off sportcars, but now I've almost got it out my system again and I'm starting to be concerned that I'll collect points etc....so I'm back in the van :lol:

I really like slow corners, acceleration and roundabouts, I do not do straight line boring stuff or hard cornering over 70mph on the road...too risky.

Getting back on track with AVO, and SJ, and Protech....................
Does anyone not know if the SJ springs are the federal spec fronts???
:P
Last edited by thewheelrestorer on Sun 04.01.2009, 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby ektrolleyboy » Sun 04.01.2009, 20:28

theelanman wrote:
ektrolleyboy wrote:Did anyone see EASTENDERS last night?
I've not seen it for a while but I hear Nasty NIck's coming back. I thought he was dead!

Erm... Now what was that thingy about going off topic? :wink: :wink: :wink:


mmmmm....now yer just being daft......
whats the point of that?....



It's just a bit of fun.
Don't take everything here s seriously.
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby theelanman » Sun 04.01.2009, 21:50

ektrolleyboy wrote:
theelanman wrote:
ektrolleyboy wrote:Did anyone see EASTENDERS last night?
I've not seen it for a while but I hear Nasty NIck's coming back. I thought he was dead!

Erm... Now what was that thingy about going off topic? :wink: :wink: :wink:


mmmmm....now yer just being daft......
whats the point of that?....



It's just a bit of fun.
Don't take everything here s seriously.


Im always up for a good laugh....however
theres a non technical section if you wanna ramble......n talk general bo!!ox
if you stick it in a technical reply...at least try to keep it some where near the topic
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby Dico » Sun 04.01.2009, 22:06

Madras or Jalfrezi?
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby Specky » Sun 04.01.2009, 22:13

Dico wrote:Madras or Jalfrezi?


A Chickhen Tarker....






























It's like a chicken Tikka, but a little Otter.... :roll:


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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby theelanman » Sun 04.01.2009, 23:48

Dico wrote:Madras or Jalfrezi?



typical....................... :) :-D
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby MattDon » Mon 05.01.2009, 04:26

well to answer one of the questions, im realy looking for a setup that will tighten up the roll (not that theres lots) and soak up the pot holes better, i know changing my tyres from the 17's im running at the moment will help, but i looks like 16" is the only option and i cant see 1" making a huge difference. I dont see that it can be so hard to find a spring/shock setup thats a little stiffer under hard use and a little softer on the road, i dont know about these things but id imagine a good quality shock and perhaps dual springs is capable of this.

I was talking to a guy who has installed alot of the gaz shocks (mainly on elises) and he swears by them, where as ive heard negative things on here. Im assuming to get what i want the current shocks cant provide as theyre relatively budget options!??
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby nitroman » Mon 05.01.2009, 04:47

MattDon wrote:well to answer one of the questions, im realy looking for a setup that will tighten up the roll (not that theres lots) and soak up the pot holes better, i know changing my tyres from the 17's im running at the moment will help, but i looks like 16" is the only option and i cant see 1" making a huge difference. I dont see that it can be so hard to find a spring/shock setup thats a little stiffer under hard use and a little softer on the road, i dont know about these things but id imagine a good quality shock and perhaps dual springs is capable of this.

Matt, I think a 1" wheel change can make a huge difference when it comes to road harshness transmission. Even going to 225/45 VS 205/45 tires on the 16" wheels makes a very surprising difference in 'sponginess.' Staying with 16" but using 40-series tires makes for a much harsher ride over small road irregulatities.
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby thewheelrestorer » Mon 05.01.2009, 10:36

nitroman:
yes I agree a 16" to 17" will feel different for sure in the comfort harshness department, but also the rim width and also the tyre width can have worst or better effects

Quick questionYou mentioned 225/45 size is this on a 16" or 17" ?

You can go narrow rim fat tyre for a more comfort, but "sponginess" may be evident, or wide rim narrow tyre for a very tight accurate change of direction without much deflection (poet?) but you'll have a harsh ride.........it's horses for courses, or go in the middle (Stock) to be safe and not sorry.

Getting back on track, or road, or thread, or Jalfrezi tarkers :lol:

SJ front Springs.............. Federal Springs or NOT ??? Surely somebody must know.................or is it a secret? :P
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby Specky » Mon 05.01.2009, 10:40

I've gotta idea.... Ring them... :wink:

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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby thewheelrestorer » Mon 05.01.2009, 17:12

:shock: I'm disapointed really in this highly knowledgable forum !!

I'd of thought somebody would of known something about the only uprated spring available in the world for the Elan !!

Thanks for the advice specky to call them,........Now I know..........but I can't tell you all !!! It's classified ! :lol:
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby JIMBO » Mon 05.01.2009, 22:05

thewheelrestorer wrote:The problem with emails and forum messages etc...is you cannot see the person or persons you're effectively talking to? and hence it's difficult to get a tone or hints of wit .
And I do also wonder sometimes if the average age of this forum or certainly the ones that "chip in" most of the time could be 60 for all I know?


This forum member is over 60, has a very open mind to any possible improvements that could be made to a car
that I enjoy for what it is. I am not sure as to the age reference :evil: , but my experience goes back to supplying the tyres on your old boss's (Alan Minshaw) production saloon car.Working with many Car manufacturers and various racing teams I picked up a good deal of "production" suspension tweek's on my way to supplying almost all the winning sports and saloon cars of that era over a six year period when tyre choice was "list one of the blue book" ie free. I also road rallied (slowly because I believed it was too dangerous) Stage rallied at National and International level (badly because I wasn't brave or good enough :oops: . I became Sprint champion and even took FTD at Goodwood in my "road going" Capri over single seaters in the wet. I won enough races to say "I used to be very good on the track" and my name is on the IPA (International Police Association) Trophy. the only award the police ever gave me for speeding :wink:

Please , please stop talking down to us on this suspension topic, leave the "age comments out, and lets have realistic imput that could improve our driving pleasure at what ever level of competance or useage we have.
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby theelanman » Mon 05.01.2009, 22:22

JIMBO wrote:Please , please stop talking down to us on this suspension topic, leave the "age comments out, and lets have realistic imput that could improve our driving pleasure at what ever level of competance or useage we have.


:agree: :smt023 :smt038
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby ektrolleyboy » Mon 05.01.2009, 22:28

I personally think we should leave these suspensions discusions alone from now on and merely thread on what exists and no longer theorise.

I'm tired of being involved in or reading about bitching especially when Donington's coming up and there then may be annimosity in the air.

Let's make Lotus love people :wink: !
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby GeoffSmith » Mon 05.01.2009, 22:30

Don't forget that there were several reports of the front end going very light on Fed cars at 100MPH+. Is it due to the springs, the crash structure or something else?
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby Elanlover » Mon 05.01.2009, 22:34

GeoffSmith wrote:Don't forget that there were several reports of the front end going very light on Fed cars at 100MPH+. Is it due to the springs, the crash structure or something else?


I know LGM had some comments on that. At the risk of misquoting her I believe that she felt a slight improvment after fitting the Esprit chin spoiler/splitter on the front. If true, this would speak more to aerodynamics than suspension. I've often wondered what the effect of a rear splitter a la the Elise would be. Could make for a nice rear bumper upgrade (waaay off topic now :oops: ).
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Re: AVO & Protech shock absorbers & SJ Springs

Postby Specky » Mon 05.01.2009, 23:00

as well as a front splitter , The car could do with a better engine damping system... That would stop some of the nose raising issues

My preproduction doesn't even have any engine dampers... :shock:


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