Gearbox problems

[Specky]

The more info the better please RIP,

I'm guessing mine's the same, but if I tighten the nut, how do I move everything back down the shaft

keep up the good skills RIP

TTFN

[rip]

I now have the car back & it feels right again. Because of the wear to 5th gear, engaging it is a little stiff, but hopefully this will ease (feels like it is already).

When the bolt loosened, it allowed the gears to slide down the shaft. There are shims in between each component (or several of them at least). These shims dropped slightly, so when I tightened the bolt again, the shims spaced out the gears instead of just holding them firmly in shape.
Gerald told me that he had to remove 5th so he could get at the rest in order to re-locate them. He also mentioned using a press to get 5th back into shape, so it sounds like this may come apart in 2 pieces?
I also asked if these torques should be checked when I next changed the gearbox oil, but was told that there shuld be no need for this.

I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but this apparently used to be more common when Elans were newer, so it sounds like it will be ok once re-torqued. I still like the idea of checking this once in a while though.

The other thoughts I had were that the shafts rotate in opposite directions & the other one does not tend to loosen. Why did Isuzu not make this a left-handed thread so the motion tightens it?
Finally, I have not had my Piper exhaust on long, so maybe the extra torque this allows the engine to produce has caused this to happen a little sooner than it otherwise may have?

[Specky]

Rip,

Did GST remove the gearbox to carry out the work...I'm just wondering how he used a press in situ...

TTFN

[rip]

Gearbox definitely stayed in place. Gerald lost me a little when he mentioned a press, probably because I have never seen one. I get the feeling that 5th came out in 2 parts & he needed a press to put them back together again.

[bobbrown]

I know it requires a puller (Lotus tool T000T0995F) to get 5th gear off the shaft so no doubt the reverse to put it back.
No doubt Gerald has done this job more than once.

Bob

[valimar]

I went today to an experienced mechanic (chief mechanic by MG) and he found strange to repair the 5th gear in situ (?) He told me that even if you take out the shaft with a puller you can not use the puller to put it back! He advise me to take out the transmission for a proper analysis! I ask myself how is it possible to line up the gears with both shafts out of place!
Any ideas about it?

[bobbrown]

If Gerald at GST can do it in place then it is possible and he has vast experience working on Lotus cars, he was involved with the M100 launch and his history with Lotus goes back even further.
Try giving him a ring 01638 661144 he is very easy to talk to before you go to all the expence of gear box removal etc

Bob

BTW: I do not think it was the shaft but just 5 gear he removed.

[RayD]

... you can not use the puller to put it back!...Any ideas about it?

It’s almost certain the “pressing on” in situ involves using the shaft end nut to apply the pressure on a number of different depth rings.

Ray

The picture is only to help visualise the principal...

[valimar]

Thanks Bob and Ray,
I already talked with Gerald (very nice chap, indeed) and he explained me in detail how to fix the 5th gear. However is not that simple, demanding some technical experience about transmissions, i'm going to give it a try and take the shafts out for inspection. Positive is that Gerald told me that I don't need any kind of special tools, not even a puller...
Rodrigo

[RayD]

... he explained me in detail how to fix the 5th gear. However is not that simple, demanding some technical experience about transmissions...
Rodrigo

Rodrigo,

I don't have a gearbox problem, I was just answering a question you asked.

However, I think some people might benefit from knowing the solution, regardless of how technical it might be.

Cheers
Ray

[Specky]

Yes please...

TTFN

[GeoffSmith]

Stick it in the WIKI please.gif

[valimar]

I was planning to finish the job to let you all know but i can as wel tell you about it now. As you know i'm not an expert in overhauling transaxles and of course, from a brief technical explanation of a couple of minutes i only kept in mind the main issues. First of all there is no need of special tools, not even a puller. Second, before getting the 2 big nuts loose you have to lock the shafts: you just select 3th or 4th and then by hand, after desconecting the selector fork, select the 5th.
Then, if i understood it correctly you can just pull the gears out. After you have to inspect it for dammages and eventually change some shims. Then, if there is no major dammage, you put everything back and fasten the big nuts slightly and turn the engine a couple of times. if you can change gears properly then you have to apply the right torque to both nuts (127Nm), fit the cover, put oil in it and then cross your fingers...
When I finish I let you know more!
Cheers

[valimar]

Well today i took out the 5th gears and synchronizer and didn't see any major damage, just some light wear!
But now I have another problem: when I try to change gears the stick won't move at all. I disconnet the cables and unbolt the selector housing and the sliders were lined up in neutral. I tryed to move the sliders with a large screwdriver but I could not change gears. The sliders move a few millimeters but not enough to change gears! I'm afraid to apply force and damage something. Maybe my gearbox has some internal damage! Any idea if it is easy to move the sliders using just a screwdriver? If that is the case mine must be jammed...
Cheers

[Specky]

When mine jams in 5th I have to use a screw driver to release it...

I have to use a large flat blade screw driver and twist it slight agaist the middle selector slider...If I don't it suddenly releases and shoots to the other side,

All in all it quite tight which requires a desent seized screw driver as a normal screw driver won't move it...

TTFN

[valimar]

Yes indeed Specky, I had to use quite a big screw driver to move the gears!
But now, by closer examination, I found a disturbing wear out within the synchronizer assembly, on the gear that is moved by the 5th selector fork!
Maybe that could be the reason of the problems! I will post some pictures in the hope to bring some enlightenment in[img][img][url][/url][/img][/img]to the problem.
Any clue would be appreciate.

[Specky]

That's not so good, i'm guessing that's the damage RIP was refering to, but his was only minor, as for me I can only let you know in about a weeks time.

was one of your shaft end nuts loose

TTFN

[valimar]

Yes, the left nut, on the pictures I posted before, was loose!

[Specky]

here's a question or two...

Are you doing this all in situ?

As for me, do you think it would be an option to take the shaft out of one gearbox and transpose it straight in to the other. I was thinking it's quicker than changing the box.

TTFN

[valimar]

First I will bring the gears to some transmission expert to check the damages and only then I'll see what steps I will take.
To take the shafts out is not possible with the gearox "in situ".