Pinky II

[Elanlover]

Monty!

Opinions and impressions on how the new, smaller pot Wilwood caliper feels braking-wise compared to the old, larger pot caliper are desperately wanted!!!!

How'd it go?

[Monty]

I`ve been busy off late, so time to update this thread. Manage to get Pinky back on the road last Saturday but didn`t get much time to driving and had to bed the brakes in on the way to the Trackday at Oulton Park

Ok, a list of what was done,
New S2 PAS rack fitted
2 new PAS pipes made & fitted
Castrol ATF Dexron III PAS fluid

All front suspension cleaned, treated and protected with Dinitrol products

oil change, Q8 F1 10w/50

Bob browns 16" Willwood Front Brake kit fitted
294mm 1 piece Disc 6.8kg
Wilwood 120-7472 (GV-120-7328) Dynapro Calipers 38.1mm piston with Dust seals 1.68kg (Known as Midilite at Rally Design)
Bracket 0.4kg
Yellowstuff pads DP4039 http://www.brakes4u.co.uk/
New Brake hose Straight SS Fitting to caliper
Castrol SRF racing brake fluid

Torque settings
Bracket to Hub 70ft/lbs (95nm)
Caliper to Bracket 40ft/lbs (54nm)

Alternative pads:- http://www.perfectbrakes.com/aftermarket.asp
Greenstuff DP2039
Redstuff DP3039C
Wilwood pads:- http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php
MIDILITE POLY 'E' BRAKE PADS 15E-7266K
MIDILITE POLY 'A' BRAKE PADS 15A-7263K
MIDILITE POLY 'Q' BRAKE PADS 15Q-7268K
MIDILITE `SMART` BRAKE PADS 150-8946

Disc for BB`s Wilwwod Dynapro front upgrade
Cross Ref to a SUBARU Impreza, Forester,Legacy
http://www.apec-braking.co.uk/apec_deta ... f=DSK+2072
DSK 2072
Vented - Mountings 5
Disc diameter 295.0mm
Disc thickness 24.0mm
Overall height 57.0mm
Centre diameter 58.0mm
Minimum thickness 22.0mm

(Brembo Part Number 09.9077.10)









You can also see the New brake pipe fitting going to the Elbo on the caliper

[rip]

Nice.
How do the brakes compare now you have the new calipers in place?
Also, are those discs only available in a 4-bolt pattern?

[Monty]

Since the straight brake hose fitting going to the caliper had rusted and one had split in half i replaced this section with a Stainless replacement which can also be reused. Big thanks to Bob Brown for taking the time to work out which fitting was needed and giving me instruction on how to fit them

The fitting i ordered:-
-3 JIC Stainless Female straight to fit -3 TFE Braided hose
Ordered through http://www.thinkauto.com/
part number:- HETSSF7-3

Old fitting


Cut the old fitting off using a junior hacksaw with a fine blade and cut back the outer clear sleeve back approx 1"


Fit the nut section on hose 1st
The olive fits in between the inner TFE pipe and the braided section


Push on the last piece making sure the spigot is pushed all the way in, tighten the two fittings and leave a 0.7mm gap between the two parts.

[dapinky]

....... are those discs only available in a 4-bolt pattern?

Give that man an eyesight test before he gets into the drivers seat


(sorry Ian, couldn't resist it......specialist subject - "The bleedin' obvious" )

[rip]

....... are those discs only available in a 4-bolt pattern?

Give that man an eyesight test before he gets into the drivers seat


(sorry Ian, couldn't resist it......specialist subject - "The bleedin' obvious" )

Er, I meant 5-bolt....or are they NOT available in 4-bolt.

[Monty]

Monty!

Opinions and impressions on how the new, smaller pot Wilwood caliper feels braking-wise compared to the old, larger pot caliper are desperately wanted!!!!

How'd it go?

Blair,
I didn`t get much driving time on the public road and had to bed the brakes on the way to the trackday, but my 1st impression was WoW i`ve got my brake pedal back It`s more solid (just like the stock feel) and can easly lock the brakes up but that was on a greasy road and the trackday was, well wet was an understatement as we had rain, snow & sleet so the circuit was extremely slippery hence why there was quite a few offs and a few elises did get damaged. In those conditions the M100 was holding it`s own and was overtaking a few Elises/Exiges
The real test will be on a dry trackday and braking from 100/120mph to about 30/40mph, which will be more than likely be next year now before i get to do another trackday.
The other huge benefit for me is the dust seals + there was no creaking/clicking of the pistons like i had with the dynalite`s when i 1st fitted them which took quite a while to disappear. I`m totally happy with this set up and look forward to doing the rears in the future.

Little info on how the trackday went is here
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8752&start=60

Nice.
How do the brakes compare now you have the new calipers in place?
Also, are those discs only available in a 4-bolt pattern?

Rip, as you can see from the photo`s there`s more than 4 holes Bob has to drill the disc for our Bolt pattern



Next project will to be work on the suspension set up as i`m still not happy with how Pinky handles, still suffering with understeer . So hopefully with Bob`s help we`ll get new spring ratings for next year

[Elanlover]

Monty, I appreciate that its hard to get a good read on the brakes when you're bedding them and with the road conditions you had to deal with. But, can you provide any impressions on the stopping power difference at all? One of my concerns is that going to a smaller pot caliper "may" reduce the great stopping power (with lower pedal of course) that we get with the larger pot Wilwoods we have today.

[Monty]

If it`s dry over the weekend i`ll take a spin over the country lane to get more feedback.

All i can say is that the car did feel more stable under braking as with the old set up the back end would go light, from what i could tell on the wet trackday the brakes were just as good. Like i said a dry trackday will give me a better understanding.
I have no doubt that i`ve made the right decision:-
1, Dust seals
2, Thicker disc
3, correct brake balance
4, No Creaking/clicking noise from the Calipers

The only downside is the weight off the 1 piece disc, there over 2kg heavier than the 310mm wilwoods but i`m sure i`ll never notice the difference on the road or track

[Monty]

Well i recieved a large Box from Bob Brown last week, which was the Hi-Spec rear brake upgrade and hub conversion which Bob wanted me to test fit. But as usual Bob had problems getting the replacement levers from with Hi-spec which are needed for our brake cables. Anyways Bob manage to get the parts to me and yesterday i fitted the complete kit
The hand brake only now needs 2 clicks and it`s on, Infact i need to use 2 hands to get a 3rd click lol. Took the car for a quick spin and the brakes seem good although i need to do another bleed, theres also a few rattles which is down to the handbrake spacers and the pads/pins, but bob is looking in to solving this.
Got to say Bob has had a hard time dealing with Hi-spec, so a big thanks from me for the time and effort that has gone in to this project

Disc and seperate Hub




This is the lever that needs to be replaced


The new lever fitted and note the new bracket that Bob had to machine to keep the cable in line with the lever


Bracket and Hub fitted


Disc & caliper fitted, note the Alloy spacer on the cable


Cable attached

[max and andy]

Is the calliper a black or the budget? I thought it said Hi-Speck in raised writing. I like the look like that. The bracket that holds the hub. I cant see it in the last few photo's. Does it stay square or is the one in the photo is a prototype? And gets cut down in size that's why i cant see it in the last photos? Looks good i don't know if its me or the photo but the calliper looks huge. Cheer's Andy

[RichardK]

All round great effort from Bob ( and by Monty for being a Guinea pig!!)

Can't wait now - go on DireSpec.....give us the goods!!

[Monty]

Is the calliper a black or the budget? I thought it said Hi-Speck in raised writing. I like the look like that. The bracket that holds the hub. I cant see it in the last few photo's. Does it stay square or is the one in the photo is a prototype? And gets cut down in size that's why i cant see it in the last photos? Looks good i don't know if its me or the photo but the calliper looks huge. Cheer's Andy

Andy,

I asked for the calipers in black to match my front wilwwods, my calipers were rushed out and i presume thats why it doesn`t have the Hi-spec embosed (you`ll need to check with Bob on that one)
The caliper bracket is the finished article but it`s made off Aluminium and the other side is machined out (see the 2nd picture).
I wouldn`t say the caliper is huge as the stock one is a big daft cast iron type, don`t forget your going to 2 pots which does away with those daft sticky sliding pins and the other good point about the hi-spec calipers is that the handbrake mechanism is all internal so dust & shite can`t effect the operation off the handbrake.

[max and andy]

Cheer's Monty. They look good like that. More custom than normal. They do look big and bad. I was expecting to be able to see the bracket in the last three photo's. Popping out from behind the disc. It must just be the camera angle. Andy

[Monty]

Today i changed the HALL in the CAS as Pinky is still on the original one, also changed the ignition leads (tigerDoug specials ) and whilst i was at it fitted Geoffs plastic heater valve.
The main reason for changing the HALL is that Pinky sometimes get slight hesitation under hard exceleration, I`ve not taken her for a spin yet to see if this has resolved the problem but i`m thinking off getting the injectors cleaned since they are now 19 years old

MSD coils fitted back in August 2008


New Ignition leads (thanks to tigerdog)


Plastic Heater Valve

[Elanlover]

Monty, did I see from those pics that you changed the air intake to the Viper from the engine bay and connected it to the original air intake in the wheel well???????

[Monty]

Monty, did I see from those pics that you changed the air intake to the Viper from the engine bay and connected it to the original air intake in the wheel well???????

Nope, the flexi intake pipe is just going downwards and trapped between the gearbox and chassis. One day i`ll do a propper job

[Elanlover]

Monty, did I see from those pics that you changed the air intake to the Viper from the engine bay and connected it to the original air intake in the wheel well???????

Nope, the flexi intake pipe is just going downwards and trapped between the gearbox and chassis. One day i`ll do a propper job

Still better than sucking hot air from the engine bay though. It'll take you all of 30 minutes to connect it up to the intake in the wheel well.

[Monty]

Monty, did I see from those pics that you changed the air intake to the Viper from the engine bay and connected it to the original air intake in the wheel well???????

Nope, the flexi intake pipe is just going downwards and trapped between the gearbox and chassis. One day i`ll do a propper job

Still better than sucking hot air from the engine bay though. It'll take you all of 30 minutes to connect it up to the intake in the wheel well.

Nah, i want to leave the stock air intake as it is as it feed cold air under the Pipercross and in to the engine bay. Eventaully i want to mod the front bumper for a direct feed to get that ram air effect, a bit like myself after a curry

[Monty]

Yet again Bob came to my rescue and came up with a solution on the rear upgrade as i couldn`t fit my New wheels on the rear to clear my wheels the caliper had to at least go inboard 8mm and 3mm outwards.

Bob redone the caliper bracket, slightly bigger Disc 262mm but 22mm thick instead of 24mm, which then required the caliper center spacers to be changed. He also came up with a better solution on the bracket/spacer for the handbrake cable to stop the rattles, the spacer is now tight in the bracket and comes as one piece and angled slightly to keep the handbrake cable away from the upper mount on the hub carrier.


New Brackets


Redisgned One piece Bracket and spacer for handbrake caliper








Disc:-
Apec part no DSK521
Vented - Mountings 4
Disc diameter 262.0mm
Disc thickness 22.0mm
Overall height 47.4mm
Centre diameter 64.2mm
Minimum thickness 19.0mm
http://www.apec-braking.co.uk/apec_deta ... ref=DSK521

Fits:-
ROVER GROUP 200
ROVER GROUP 400
HONDA CONCERTO
http://www.brakeworld.co.uk/brakeworld/ ... rs3082.htm

Other part numbers
NBD 091
EAP9579
EJP9579
45251-SK3-E00


Pads:-
Mintex MNB 1890 (lotus Elise 96-)
ATE generic

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/pads.htm
http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/ultralite_2_hb.htm