Bilstein/Eibach suspension Version 2

[bobbrown]

I have Nitrons on my VX and I am very pleased with them. The dampers are adjustable though which I assume the ones that have been quoted above aren't. I'm still in on the GB though.

The cost of the Nitrons (with Nitrons own springs) cost me £1300 for the VX. They are adjustable though. A lot of the VX guys have gone for Gaz adjustable coilovers which cost in the region of £450. Is there any merit in contacting them to see if they can offer a cheaper/alternative?

eta/ with eibach and nitron kit you are getting top end quality though.

These will be similar to the VX ones so adjustable within a small range and are matched to the springs, if you wanted to go for a significantly stronger spring then the dampers would need to be revalved or if you ran them at the full hard or soft settings then they can be re valved such that this setting is mid range not at one end or the other.
Gaz dampers are not comparing like for like, as my understanding is the Gaz dampers are of the twintube design, easy to tell as the adjuster will be at the bottom of the main tube, not a mono tube damper where the adjustment must be made down the piston rod as all the adjustments are made in the piston it's self. If you want a cheapo solution then someone else can do it, I want something that is significantly better not the same.

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Bump

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Rebound

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[bobbrown]

Is there still going to be a version for us trackday users?

As far as track day cars are concerned then you could increase the spring rates and have a damper that is matched to those springs but as with all things it is a trade off as you make the car better for track days/racing it makes it less comfortable as a road car. If you were too significantly to increase the spring rates to say double the road car rates then you would need to shorten the damper to allow for the increase in ride height the springs would give you.
e.g. a 300lb/inch spring will compress by 2.6" under static loadings replace with 600lb/inch spring and the car will sit 1.3" higher as the spring will only compress 1.3" under the same static load

Again this will all be thrashed out when the final design work is being done as I want to be able to have some options in there from standard road to full race.
My thinking is that even if you had the road setup and you want to do more track work then it is possible to change the settings to suit with out buying a complete new set of dampers, so a new set of springs and a revalve should get you from a road setup to a trackday car setup but would probably not get you to a full race setup as that would require a change in damper length.

Bob

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25 tonny006
26 ashm (£ dep)
27. gomper71
28. Avonvilla
39. dunnlor
30 Paul30
31. Denny
32. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
33. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
34. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK

[Monty]

Don`t think anyone is going to be racing an M100 anytime soon lol.

As you know bob i`m after a set up more towards trackdays ie 70/30% and would like Pinky to sit 1" lower than stock if poss. Will the dampers & springs come already assembled and setup ready to fit?

BTW, thanks for the work your putting into this.

[Elanlover]

Bob, I'm thinking I'm not the only one with a Fed car on this list. Will these be suitable for the Fed car given the suspension differences between it and the Uk spec car? I know you were going to look at this at some point and I don't know if you ever found the time. Thanks.

I do not think the US cars will present a problem as the whole system can be customised with regards to spring and damper rates etc to suit.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I have two concerns on this project that perhaps you could address for me (and other Fed owners). First off, I'm looking for (and others may want something else) a setup that's trackable but not track only. In other words, something that can give me better performance over stock if I'm on the track and street but will also not jar my fillings loose. I currently have the Protech adjustable shocks on all four corners and the SJ stiffer springs in the front. Its better than stock but it can still be better. I also find the SJ springs to be very "springy" so I have to turn the shocks way up so the car doesn't bounce too much.

Also, the above setup (esentially a UK setup I believe) has the car sitting lower than stock. Again, I'm happy with that but I'm guessing that the geomtery might be slightly out of range of the stock setup with the car being lower. So, I'd want to make sure that i get the right specs for the Fed car so the Lotus garage can set it up for optimal performance.

Other than that, I'm still in

[bobbrown]

Don`t think anyone is going to be racing an M100 anytime soon lol.

As you know bob i`m after a set up more towards trackdays ie 70/30% and would like Pinky to sit 1" lower than stock if poss. Will the dampers & springs come already assembled and setup ready to fit?

BTW, thanks for the work your putting into this.

So if I read tis right you are after a trackday setup that is not too harsh so that is usable on the road and does knock your fillings out and has the car sitting 1" lower than standard.
Do not see it being a problem just need to get the spring/damper rates right and the length of the dampers but as I said before if it needs to be changed it is not a case of replacing every thing.
Bob

[bobbrown]

I have two concerns on this project that perhaps you could address for me (and other Fed owners). First off, I'm looking for (and others may want something else) a setup that's trackable but not track only. In other words, something that can give me better performance over stock if I'm on the track and street but will also not jar my fillings loose. I currently have the Protech adjustable shocks on all four corners and the SJ stiffer springs in the front. Its better than stock but it can still be better. I also find the SJ springs to be very "springy" so I have to turn the shocks way up so the car doesn't bounce too much.

Also, the above setup (esentially a UK setup I believe) has the car sitting lower than stock. Again, I'm happy with that but I'm guessing that the geomtery might be slightly out of range of the stock setup with the car being lower. So, I'd want to make sure that i get the right specs for the Fed car so the Lotus garage can set it up for optimal performance.

Other than that, I'm still in

SJ springs being 20% up on the standard, I am assuming 20% increase over standard UK springs not the fed ones. I am looking into the Fed spec but at present have no details of what the increase in spring rates are from UK to Fed spec cars. Working from the weight differences and the fact I think the Fed spec had a slightly higher ride height (can any one confirm?) then it should not be that much of a problem to calculate where the differences lie. If you happen to have the original standard springs then they will help as it should be possible to get the spring rates from one of those for the front and a quick measure will give the free length and from that the increase in ride height etc. Of course lowering the car a little will improve handling but it has done correctly. Saying the springs are very springy, as springy as a spring thing on a spring day? the fact you have to increase the damping to damp that out leads me to believe they are not matched that well to the springs and the weight of the car. As far as geometry is concerned it should still be possible to dial in the correct settings as the ride height will only change these settings a small amount and should be well with in the range of adjustment. Changing the damper and spring and still having the car at the same ride height should not change any of the geometry.

Bob

[tonny006]

Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69

26 ashm (£ dep)
27. gomper71
28. Avonvilla
39. dunnlor
30 Paul30
31. Denny
32. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
33. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
34. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK

Hi Bob
I have removed myself from the list,
I am still interested in doing the suspension but i am willing to wait and see how happy everyone is before i decide to spend the money.
There are a few things i need to sort out before i can make use of the better handling.
Hopefully i will be in on the next batch.
Keep up the good work.

Tony

[abmunro]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. ashm (£ dep)
26. gomper71
27. Avonvilla
28. dunnlor
29 Paul30
30. Denny
31. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
32. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
33. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK

[ashm]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28 Paul30
29. Denny
30. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
31. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
32. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK

I've taken myself off the list for the time being as I'm not a definite... hopefully I'll be back on later!
Cheers Bob,

Adam

[Denny]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28 Paul30
29. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
30. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
31. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK

Bob,
I’ve taken myself of the list as there are a few other projects I need to spend the cash on before I can make use of the better handling. Will be interested in the future though, so I will keep up with the development.
Many thanks for all your contributions.
Denny.

[davidjt]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover - Price OK
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28 Paul30
29. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
30. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
31. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK
32. Davidjt

[PAUL30]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover - Price OK
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad (definitely interested, depending in part on final cost)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
29. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
30. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK
31. Davidjt

[superbad]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover - Price OK
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad - Price OK (would be contingent on having a Fed version though)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
29. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
30. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK
31. Davidjt

[mnemonix]

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover - Price OK
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad - Price OK (would be contingent on having a Fed version though)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
29. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
30. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK
31. Davidjt
32. mnemonix

[Dico]

Call me thick, but are people who have added their names to the list in the last few days happy with the price or just showing interest? If the former then maybe edit to say so. Theres still quite a few folk need to either confirm or remove themselves.

Lets bear in mind that the majority of owners vehicles are over 15 years old now and most will be on their original shocks/springs. Its a big outlay but if you're planning on keeping your Elan then its a must.

[Monty]

Ok, Bob has started a new list in the Group Buy section, only add your name if your happy with the price and committed to buying

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=15962&p=211555#p211555

[bobbrown]

I was thinking the same thing and to remove the confusion could I ask people who are interested and willing to commit all be it subject to the development going to plan and meet the design criteria to add their names to the list in the group buy section viewtopic.php?f=85&t=15962.
I need to have a reasonable number of people as the cost of development has to be taken in to account and two set is simply not enough to make it a worth while exercise or to keep the costs down.

I should also point out that who ever is willing and able to be the guinea pig the car will have the dampers and springs tuned to the car and ideally for road use, track cars or people who what an firmer ride then the spring rates and dampers can be matched to their requirements as the components stay the same but with different rates.
What is good for one driver on the track may not suit another so they need to be a bit individual all be it a base setting can be established. Even if after you had fitted the kit it is possible to tune the system harder or softer by changing the shim pack, OK there is a cost attached to this but at £25 a damper for a simple re-valve those doing lots of track day will see the benefits.
Do not forget these dampers can be completley rebuilt so although the cost may seem high in the future they do not need to be replaced just rebuilt.




Bob

[Elanlover]

I've been editing the list to correct for numbering, etc. as people indicate their interest or non-interest. However, to be safe I'll add a title to the list so everyone knows what they're getting into.

[Elanlover]

COMITTED TO BUY @ £1,250 (set of 4 dampers and springs)

1. Nige - OK with me, about what I would have expected. If it includes fitting etc. then bargain
2. Sy
3. Elanlover - Price OK (Fed version)
4. G UK
5. RichardK
6. Dico - Price OK
7. Chris.T- Price OK
8. A B Munro - Price OK
9. bobbrown (Nitron)
10. Specky- Price OK?
11. Monty- Price OK?
12. ektrolleyboy
13 Gazza
14. Nohair
15. rip
16.Esprit888
17.Chinmeister
18.Joe
19. alexg
20. superbad - Price OK (Fed version)
21. mvf906
22. Fumello
23. Lansledj
24 Paul69
25. gomper71
26. Avonvilla
27. dunnlor
28. Nicowalker1 (£ dependant)
29. Jackonicko (£ dependant)
30. Alan (ab2cv) - Price OK
31. Davidjt
32. mnemonix

[Monty]

Come on guys, show a bit of support and make a commitment to buy as there`s only 11 people on the list

The new list is here viewtopic.php?f=85&t=15962