stock rear shock absorbers/ dampers

[Gee0]

I have just noticed that one of my rear shocks is on the way out,

I am looking for any ideas on where to source a pair, and or a part number so that I can cross ref to a more common car.

any ideas welcome.

Gee0

[Gee0]

Any Ideas?
I would rather put NEW in her, than used!!!!!!!

Don't have the pennies for Bobs full upgrade.

[saska]

Any Ideas?

Gee0, AFAIK the OEM rear shocks are no longer available. The S2 damper is recommended for all non-Federal cars, part No E100D6011F, see page 237 of the Parts Manual.
I think they are Monroe dampers but I've never been able to find a Monroe part number.

SJs sell some aftermarket shocks, used to be Gaz but apparently now ProTech. AVO do an OEM replacement PH748 available HERE or HERE £90 - 110 + VAT + Shipping

If you find a source for the OEM's or particularly a Monroe part no please let us all know.

[ashm]

So given the available options, do we reckon the ProTech or AVO parts are the better option? Anybody had experience of both?
Adam

[saska]

So given the available options, do we reckon the ProTech or AVO parts are the better option? Anybody had experience of both?

Adam, I don't have experience of either (both my cars are stock) although Dave (Dapinky) has the Protechs on one of his cars -- I think.

If you give me a bit more time, I'm trying to find out the parts that made up the S2 setup which is generally recognised as very good for road use.
The problem with suspensions is that the front and rear should be balanced and the side to side should also be hooked up. As John Miles (not a numpty) said about the M100 "It's all of a piece."
I think the stock S2 suspension setup is extremely hard to beat for road use, so I'm trying to find out how to replicate it as closely as possible. Personally I couldn't care less about cost, but I also realise that isn't the case for everyone.

I'll advise when I know more.

[dapinky]

Yep,

I have the protechs on one of the cars - it is set up (corner weights and damping) to be just slightly harder than stock, but balanced across the car, and front to back.

I have had no problems with them, and when i get the inclination, I'll see about getting some slightly harder springs knocked up.

The problem with all things related to suspension and handling (and roadholding, which is NOT the same), is that we all have different expectations and desires, so what I like, may not suit you.

The other car is still on standard stuff, and the 2 cars do behave differently, but both have been taken on track and perform well. (or at least, my limit is reached before that of the car!)

Monty uses the Avo's, and to be honest, they are possibly a better unit, but as i had protechs on when i got the car, i stuck with them when i needed 2 new ones on the back.

[saska]

I have the protechs on one of the cars - it is set up (corner weights and damping) to be just slightly harder than stock, but balanced across the car, and front to back.

Sorry to bother further but do you think the ProTechs have the range of adjustment to emulate the stock S2 setup? In other words, assume someone had a new OEM front spring/damper set and new rear springs, could the ProTechs do the rear dampers very similar to the OEM?
[snip]

The problem with all things related to suspension and handling (and roadholding, which is NOT the same), is that we all have different expectations and desires, so what I like, may not suit you.

So very true.

Monty uses the Avo's, and to be honest, they are possibly a better unit, but as i had protechs on when i got the car, i stuck with them when i needed 2 new ones on the back.

Understood -- better what you already know. Would like to hear from Monty whether the AVOs for rear could replace the OEMs in the same scenario as outlined above. Or any other comments he'd care to make about the AVOs -- or anyone else with either AVOs or the Protechs.

[dapinky]

Tony,

I am only a pooly paid public service worker, so am relegated to ownership of an SE, not an S2

Therefore, I have no idea what the damper rating is for one of those (not hugely different, I expect).

That said, the Protechs have an adjustment range which goes from softer than standard, to harder than standard, but as to whether one of the settings is EXACTLY the same as standard, I couldn't say.

I started off with them at about the settings of a standard unit (as measured with a set of bathroom scales, stopwatch and a 20lb weight! - fully extended shock, stick the weight on it and see how long it takes for full compression - very scientific, but it gives a rough guide!!!).

Then I set the corner weights, then i went for a drive and clicked the shocks up and down 'til i found a setting that i liked.

[Rambo]

I am only a pooly paid public service worker.....

I didn't know there was such a thing

[saska]

I am only a pooly paid public service worker, so am relegated to ownership of an SE, not an S2

You think we'll believe anything round here eh ?

That said, the Protechs have an adjustment range which goes from softer than standard, to harder than standard, but as to whether one of the settings is EXACTLY the same as standard, I couldn't say.
I started off with them at about the settings of a standard unit (as measured with a set of bathroom scales, stopwatch and a 20lb weight! - fully extended shock, stick the weight on it and see how long it takes for full compression - very scientific, but it gives a rough guide!!!).
Then I set the corner weights, then i went for a drive and clicked the shocks up and down 'til i found a setting that i liked.

OK -- very useful to know the range available.
Regarding your 'scientific' shock analysis, it's often surprising how close you can get with seemingly rough analysis. I re-built a TR6 engine a long time ago -- took all the pistons, weighed each one with a kitchen scale, took the lightest and set it aside, weighed each of the rest and filed the inside of the skirt until they were all the same as the lightest. Then did the same with the con rods, pushrods, etc. A very rough & ready balancing effort but the engine ran sweet as a sewing machine when started.
Thanks again for your input on the Protechs.

[ashm]

Regarding your 'scientific' shock analysis, it's often surprising how close you can get with seemingly rough analysis. I re-built a TR6 engine a long time ago -- took all the pistons, weighed each one with a kitchen scale, took the lightest and set it aside, weighed each of the rest and filed the inside of the skirt until they were all the same as the lightest. Then did the same with the con rods, pushrods, etc. A very rough & ready balancing effort but the engine ran sweet as a sewing machine when started.
Thanks again for your input on the Protechs.

I've often used the "kitchen scale" type approach, nothing wrong with it at all. Has its limits though...

I'm currently slightly stumped by one of my non-Elan projects: I need to design and build a high precision dynamic balance gauge. The items I have to test are about 30mm long, weigh about 10g, operate at 180,000 rpm, and we'd need to process about 5,000 of them per year. Not easy to do at any sane level of cost...

Adam

[Specky]

Static or dynamic?

or both

TTFN

[Rambo]

I've got Protech's too - and I'm only a poorly paid self employed person paying ginormous taxes to fund these affluent public sector bods

PS From memory, my Protech's are set on an equivalent setting to the OE dampers. I got my garage to do it for me and have never changed the settings. Feels nice and tight.

[ashm]

Static or dynamic?

or both

TTFN

Dynamic (ie. both!), any imbalance affects in-flight stability. Don't need to balance them, just gauge the imbalance and bin the duds. Currently working on a precision spindle suspended in magnetic bearings, pneumatic drive and high sensitivity inductive pickups at each end... getting the damping mechanism right is really hard though.

Ad

[Gee0]

Dynamic (ie. both!), any imbalance affects in-flight stability. Don't need to balance them, just gauge the imbalance and bin the duds. Currently working on a precision spindle suspended in magnetic bearings, pneumatic drive and high sensitivity inductive pickups at each end... getting the damping mechanism right is really hard though.

Ad

Does ANYONE know what he is talking about

[ashm]

Sorry, I can tend to ramble...

So it seems we've at least got more experience with the ProTech units. Interested to hear about the AVOs though.
When looking closely at the car on Wednesday I noticed that the OSR appears to be riding higher than the NSR - so I may be in the market for some new bits sooner rather than later!

The manuals give the ride heights as follows:
Front - 165mm to lower wishbone inboard pivot
Rear - 154mm to extreme rear edge of chassis

I guess what we need is the specification for each end of the original S2 setup:

Spring free length
Spring rate
Damper response curve

Anybody got a shock dyno and original dampers in good condition? I'd be interested to see the OE unit's response curve. Given how my SE rides I'd expect to see a fairly linear profile, but I understand that quality dampers have been tending towards digressive recently.

Adam

[Gee0]

I am just looking for a set of new shocks/dampers that I can get fitted and drive away without having to worry about "Damper response curves" and "corner weights" and get as close to stock as possible.

I have a contact that deal in Monroe so I will ask him to do some digging next week.

[texas2201]

I fitted the adj AVO's been fine apart from having to replace one on warranty because it started leaking. Had them too hard to start with but backed them up a few notches and fine now - but waiting for new drop links for the rear ARB now - one thing leads to another ..................

[speed-demon]

Reading this thread with great interest as I'd like to whip my old suspension off in the not too distant future...

What springs are best and does anyone have any first hand experience of the S.J - Protech stuff combined with their uprated springs that they offer? I'm guessing the uprated spring is stiffer?
S.J are also offering LOTUS items... Hmmm... Is there a performance benefit to be had from not going down the LOTUS route?

If you went for the Avo units, what spring and where would you find it? Assuming that our original springs would benefit from replacement.

I think the standard cars run a little too high and would look far nicer with a 1" drop in height, so that would be on my list too, so I guess that outlaws the LOTUS units! So to Avo or to Protech? That is the question!

[dapinky]

I think the standard cars run a little too high and would look far nicer with a 1" drop in height, so that would be on my list too, so I guess that outlaws the LOTUS units! So to Avo or to Protech? That is the question!

Whilst I have nothing against anyone wishing to do whatever they want to their own car, it is worth bearing in mind (and there are plenty of other threads on the theory behind it all), that a 1" drop in height, just by adjusting the spring platforms, WILL affect the handling.

If it is done just for the 'look' of the car, then I have no problem at all, and can see the aesthetic benefits of it. However, the spring loading will be changed (less pre-load) and the suspension travel will be affected.
In everyday use, on a road, you wouldn't notice it (perhaps), and therefore you would have no problems at all - but if you want to drop an inch and still have the same suspension travel, then you will need to investigate changes to springs as well.

Also, bear in mind that speed bumps may become an issue - on the red car, it sits a little lower than standard, and road bumps are not a great problem (with care), as they have to comply to certain regulations for height/angle etc, but when Angie takes Jamie to football practice, the bumps at the sports centre are a bit more extreme, and she can't use the elan without scraping the underside - as it is private property, the bumps do not need to comply with road regulations