Replicate OEM Suspension - S2/RowSE/NA(part) - Not USA

[daveA]

Hi

I have been watching this with great intrest......so have now added my name to the list.

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
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[ashm]

If it helps with the numbers I'm definitely in for this so long as the Protech results are close to stock.
Good work on the springs - I think mine are pretty tired.

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
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[knoxmotorsports]

for what it's worth, i have been trying to get in contact with the guys at protech for some time, to no avail. it has been weeks since their last correspondence. i too would like to see some shock dyno printouts of theirs.

[saska]

for what it's worth, i have been trying to get in contact with the guys at protech for some time, to no avail. it has been weeks since their last correspondence. i too would like to see some shock dyno printouts of theirs.

Billy; spoke to Simon today after getting passed to the answerbone for the last few weeks -- Kevin is away until Wed (20 Oct) of next week. you might try then.
For everyone else; I've been trying to get Protech to produce an equivalent damper to OEM but failed so far. I've been seriously considering other options:
1. Send some OEM dampers to AVO and ask them to tell us which setting on the PH747/8 is closest to OEM. The PH747/8 are part of their Roadsport range so steel and liable to rot -- they don't list an aluminium alternative.
2. Contact Bilstein and/or Sachs/ZF and see if they'd be interested in producing an OEM replacement. These might be more expensive but if they followed the OEM spec exactly it might be worth it since rear dampers are unobtainable and OEM fronts expensive.
3. Buy a set of SJ's front & rear Protech dampers, measure them and then send them off to someone with a shock dyno to find out which setting is closest to OEM.
I knew there were differences between the OEMs and the Protechs SJs are selling but am gratefull to a forum member who pointed out by PM that the rear SJ Protech has 1.5" less free length than stock. His (well respected) mechanic refused to fit it.
The total travel on the OEM rear damper is 90mm (3.54") so 1.5" is a lot to be out.
4. Ask Protech if they'd be prepared to send the OEM dyno graphs they already have since they've had plenty of opportunity to produce a prototype but haven't done so yet. Not quite sure what I'd do with these but knowledge & posterity are a wonderful thing and you never know where it leads.
5. Better suggestions

[solty909]

I have been following this post avidly as vested interest party due to my SE developing very embarrassing rear axle tramp around a roundabout, whilst trying to tuck under an MX 5 recently on the A24. I do not know whether Tony has tried LEDA as a shock maker. I spoke to Matt Courtage @ LEDA in Derby who seemed very interested in helping us. He told me they had made a special order for a gent in the USA who needed M100 dampers for his Elan there and they had helped out the Land Rover owners club with their ambulances, by making 200 shocks for them as like our O/E parts there were no longer available. Could I suggest we give them a run instead of Protech. Best wishes Peter

[tigerdog]

2. Contact Bilstein and/or Sachs/ZF and see if they'd be interested in producing an OEM replacement. These might be more expensive but if they followed the OEM spec exactly it might be worth it since rear dampers are unobtainable and OEM fronts expensive.

Hmmm. Bilstein USA are located here in San Diego. I have read they offer custom valving and damper matching as a service at this facility. I don't know if they already offer a fitment for the the Elan (Don't think they do) but yes, if we can get shock dyno info it would make a great starting point for them.

[solty909]

Since my last post I have now found a O/E front shock absorber for the Elan in New Zealand of all places. In the sake of this quest would it be at all useful for testing purposes?

[solty909]

Sorry cancel my last post. i meant rear O/E shock absorber OOOPs

[DavidEJM]

Whilst I'd love to get the NITRON/EIBACH kit, I think that the cost is prohibitive for me at the moment, therefore I'd be interested in this as a way of freshening up my suspension as my car is getting a little bit 'wayward' these days.

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear)
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[ashm]

Hi, did Protech ever get back with the graphs at all?
Adam

[DavidEJM]

I really could do with getting this sorted soon as my car is leaning to one side.

I either need new suspension or go on a diet!

[saska]

Hi, did Protech ever get back with the graphs at all?

Nope. I've about given up on Protech -- lots of promises no action.
BobB and I had some discussions about using Gaz -- he kindly paid them a visit to find out whether they'd be interested.
Initially I had discounted Gaz as goggling them showed up some problems with knocking/leaking dampers, however further investigation showed they'd received a bad batch of components. The research also showed they fixed all of the affected units at no charge and with excellent customer service. I then spoke to one of their technical people who quite understood the desire to replicate the OEM setup.
An interesting point of note is that the AVO & Protech design has the damping rates completely controlled by the adjuster knob. Gaz are able to add additional internal valving as well as the adjuster so would probably be able to replicate the OEM damper characteristics more closely than a single valve design.
So I sent a new front damper, front & rear springs to Gaz for them to dyno/measure (Gaz would also do springs if we want).
I then needed a rear damper which last time I'd removed from the S2 -- problem is the SE is currently off the road awaiting various things, so the S2 is my daily.
BobB had said he might be able to find a newish rear damper but I've not had a response from him and it isn't as if he hasn't enough things on his plate.
I then contacted Solty909 who had found a new rear damper in New Zealand, I asked him to send it to Gaz and told him I'd send pennies to him and Gaz to cover post but I've not since heard from either him or Gaz so don't think he sent the rear damper.
So basically I need a newish rear damper (C100D6011H or E100D6011F) to send to Gaz.
Gaz were very efficient when I sent them the frt damper and springs and a dyno of the front damper is HERE

[ashm]

Excellent - glad you're still making progress! Thanks for all the effort, you'll have lots of fans when this is finished...
Adam

[cliff]

Also very interested in this:

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear)
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear)
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[saska]

Bit of a ramble but more about what I've found out and the state of play.
Firstly the springs frt & rear are sorted. Turtons did that in short order. I'll probably get updated pricing for springs from both Gaz and Turtons. The dampers are more of a problem.
The front dampers should be F100C6015F which are no longer available. Instead if you go to Lotus they'll sell you F100C6015S which is a pair of fronts. This is what I did but the actual part number stamped into the dampers is B100C6029H -- a Lotus stamped unopened bag from Matty's with an F100C6015S part number on it. The cognescenti amongst you will recognise this as a Federal front damper. Now whether Lotus have got lots of these and are trying to flog them off as close enough and/or better than knackered dampers or whether there is actually not much difference between them and an F100C6015F I don't know yet but it probably explains the number of B100C6029H units showing up on Ebay, SWLotus, et. al. At any rate we have dyno and measurements for the F100C6015S/B100C6029H and hopefully will soon have dyno/measurements for F100C6015F. We also have measurements for rear C100D6011H but no dyno yet.

The rear dampers are different. The V6 parts manual lists S2 rear damper as E100D6011F and the SE rear damper is C100D6011H replaced by E100D6011F. Problem is no one has seen an E100D6011F. In another thread various people checked their S2 rear dampers and all came up with C100D6011H. Now I don't know if the E100D6011H is a phantom or not but it certainly looks like a C100D6011H will do nicely as it's on a lot of S2s.

So what's the difference between the SE and S2 ? The S2 front spring is stiffer 300 S2 / 290 SE and the rear spring is softer 144 S2 / 150 SE plus the S2 Adwest rack has different valving meaning it requires 15% more effort, the raft assemblies have different part numbers and so do a few of the bushes.

So Inkitin sends me a message that says he has new front dampers and springs and almost new rear dampers and springs. He checks numbers on the dampers and they are front: F100C6015F (SE/S2/NA) and rear: C100D6011H (SE/NA and probably S2 rear). Based on the above I think these will do very nicely for the project -- as close to perfect as we'll get.
Inkitin is going to send both dampers to Gaz to be measured/dyno'd. It'll be interesting to see what difference there is between the front F100C6015S/B100C6029H I sent Gaz and the F100C6015F they'll get shortly. At any rate Gaz should shortly have all they need to proceed.
I realise this has been going on forever and I don't know what Gaz will come up with, or cost, but we may actually have movement now. If those who are Still Interested could annotate their entry with SI it would be appreciated.

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear)
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear)
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI

[DavidEJM]

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear) - SI
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear)
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI

[cliff]

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear)
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear) - SI
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI

[daveA]

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear) - SI
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear) - SI
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI

[JonT]

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear) - SI
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear) - SI
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI
14. JonT - Full set (front & rear) - SI

[Avonvilla]

1. Denny - Full set (front & rear)
2. Woody - Full set (front & rear)
3. M100_DMM - Full set (front and rear) - NA
4. BFG in the BRG - Full set (front and rear)
5.Texas2201 2 rear springs if that is possible - I only recently fitted adj AVO's to the rear
6. Speed-demon - Full Set
7. Gee0 - Rear dampers and springs
8. daveA - Full set (front & rear) - SI
9. ashm - full set (front & rear)
10.DavidEJM - full set (front & rear) - SI
11.Cliff - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
12. saska - Full Set (front & rear) - SI
13. saska - Full Set of Springs + rear dampers - SI
14. JonT - Full set (front & rear) - SI
15. Avonvilla - Full Set (Front & Rear) - SI