Head gasket problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tonny006]

After doing my head gasket,9 months,3000 miles and 6 track days later it's gone again,i had the head skimmed and could only get an after market gasket made by BGC.
I know there is a thread on here for the gasket but i am stuck with my car in bits.
Does anyone recomend a make of gasket or are the OEM ones coming into production soon as i am fed up with taking the head off.
Thanks
Tony

[RayD]

Have you seen the damaged gasket yet Tony ... where has it failed?

Ray

[tonny006]

Have you seen the damaged gasket yet Tony ... where has it failed?

Ray

Yes I have Ray,
It's got a piece missing between cylinders 3&4 but the rib between the other cylinders don't look good.
I will try and post some photos later.
Tony

[tonny006]

Have you seen the damaged gasket yet Tony ... where has it failed?

Ray

Yes I have Ray,
It's got a piece missing between cylinders 3&4 but the rib between the other cylinders don't look good.
I will try and post some photos later.
Tony

Here are the photos.
The gasket went in a big way as i was on a track day at the time.

DSCF0082[1].jpg

[ashm]

Ooh not nice
Did the missing bits end up taking a trip through the engine?
Adam

[tigerdog]

It may not make you feel better but my brother, an import mechanic of 20 years or so, says head gaskets were always the Isuzu weak spot. Hopefully, one of the threads kicking around will come up with a long-lasting solution to this problem.

[racerstev]

We need to get a group buy together with Cometic. They will build us a nice multi layer steel gasket that will hold the power.

The last time I asked about one was 9 years ago, they needed a min 25 peices at $100 each at the time..

I found the stock gasket was good to low 400's with head studs before it started to fail. I tryed O rings and
copper gaskets at the time and had no luck with them. With O ring I was able to get about a dozen 1/4 pass's
before blowing a gasket at 500 wheel HP..

Steve

[rip]

We need to get a group buy together with Cometic. They will build us a nice multi layer steel gasket that will hold the power.

The last time I asked about one was 9 years ago, they needed a min 25 peices at $100 each at the time..

I expect we can manage that, especially with the current lack of OEM ones.

[tonny006]

We need to get a group buy together with Cometic. They will build us a nice multi layer steel gasket that will hold the power.

The last time I asked about one was 9 years ago, they needed a min 25 peices at $100 each at the time..

I found the stock gasket was good to low 400's with head studs before it started to fail. I tryed O rings and
copper gaskets at the time and had no luck with them. With O ring I was able to get about a dozen 1/4 pass's
before blowing a gasket at 500 wheel HP..

Steve

That sounds like a great idea steve,and as rip says I don't think it would be hard to get the numbers.
How do we find out a price,do you know anyone there?

Tony

[RayD]

It looks like the copper ring could have been pushed out into the combustion chamber during tightening ... or is it an illusion?

Ray

[bobbrown]

We need to get a group buy together with Cometic. They will build us a nice multi layer steel gasket that will hold the power.

The last time I asked about one was 9 years ago, they needed a min 25 peices at $100 each at the time..
Steve

I have already looked into this and it is not a cheap option.
They do not make a MLS gasket for our engine but were willing to make one BUT there is a tooling cost and we need a genuine gasket as a sample!
Quote:
"There is an engineering charge of $3,200.00 USD in order for us to manufacture that in MLS. From there, you will pay approximately $75.00 USD per gasket with a retail cost of $94.46 USD. Let me know if there are any questions you have for me."

If there are 25 people who are interested this makes the cost $203.00 each!
The biggest issue will be the head and block which have to have a smooth surface finish and for the head this has to be less than 50Ra which in a lot of cases is not achievable by the normal engine shops and has to be specified when the head is machined. The head when removed is not going to be good enough in terms of surface finish so will have to be machined and care is needed when this operation is carried out.
As I see it there are a number of reason for the limits on the amount that can be machined off the head or block is to some extent limited by the change in the engine valve timing that happens when you machine a head/block. If you remove 0.5mm off the head then the valve timing will change by about 1 degree which is not a good thing, this could be compensated for if there were vernier pulleys available or it may be possible to reposition the dowels so the valve timing is correct. Also you will move the valves closer to the pistons and increase the compression ratio, the latter is difficult to work out by how much with out knowing the head volume and some other details.
It could all be compensated for by fitting a thicker gasket but again more work and tricky.


Bob

[Monty]

WoW thats bad

Just wondering if the head bolts had come lose

Stock gasket should be up to the job, my last one was done about 3 years ago now

[tonny006]

WoW thats bad

Just wondering if the head bolts had come lose

Stock gasket should be up to the job, my last one was done about 3 years ago now

No,the bolts were still tight.
The surfaces were spotless and it was torqued down to the right specification in the manual.

Tony

[Enright]

I'm sure Costas had a copper one made for his Sh4rk, but I have no idea how feasible or cost effective this would be.

[Dico]

As Murph says, the genuine ones are fine. His has coped with numerous trackdays with increased boost. Obviously they aren't going to last forever, but just look how many are on their original gasket. 20 years in some cases. Certainly not a poor design.
Having said that, if a better one can be manufactured then I'll be on the list!

[tonny006]

I'm sure Costas had a copper one made for his Sh4rk, but I have no idea how feasible or cost effective this would be.

When the gasket went last time, i did look into this and found a company that made copper ones to,but they said you have to have the block machined becaues where the rings sits around the cylonders, it leaves a dent and it needs to be totally flat.

Tony

[bobbrown]

If you mean indentations left in the head from the flame rings (the bit that sits around the gasket in way of the bores) then these need to be removed even when fitting a standard gasket. If you had indentations in the head from the flame rings when fitting the last gasket it may go some way to explain the failure this time.

[tonny006]

If you mean indentations left in the head from the flame rings (the bit that sits around the gasket in way of the bores) then these need to be removed even when fitting a standard gasket. If you had indentations in the head from the flame rings when fitting the last gasket it may go some way to explain the failure this time.

I meant the silght indentations in the same area on the block.
Nowhere near as bad as they get on the head.
I had the head skimmed as i said in my previous post.

Tony

[racerstev]

I tryed the copper route a few years back, they have a tendancy to seep water and have no fire ring around the cylinder so
need to have a O ring machined into the block or head. IMO not a good way to go.

I would be up for a $200 multi layer steel gasket, yes they should have a very smooth surface to seal with but you
can get away with more then you would think. I ran these on a Chysler for years and they always sealed for me.
One more plus is they are reusable, just clean em, reapply sealant and bolt them back in.

Just a note about valve timing and compression. On the average a .020 cut will retard valve timing a couple of degree's.
Not a large amont. The same .020 cut will (on average) raise compression about .2 point, agein small enough to not be concerned with .

If we really are worried about cutting the head and block we can just get the gaskets made thicker.

[Big G]

hi i have just had my head done one month ago ,i got the head skimmed and i got a new
gasket set from bingbro who are based all over scotland .i live just out side edinburgh so there
was no prob getting one , but it was about £150 here is the no for the edinburgh branch hope
this helps you 0131 657 6464 big g