Urgent advise needed - smoke galore

[PECKHS]

need some advice urgently
previously there was white smoke coming from the exhaust when i start the car. the smoke never goes away, so i thought it was the valve stem seal.
changed the valve stem seals i bought from SJS, and the smoke sitation was not solved.
before i start dismantling the engine to pieces, i need some advise.
3 of the plugs are soaked with oil, only 1 is clean.
the turbo pipes and such are dry, no traces of oil.
the smoke gets worse after the car warms up, lesser when it is cold.
questions:
1. other than the valve seals, what else could fail and cause oil to flow into the engine?
2. what does oil soaked plugs indicates?
3. how can i check what is causing the oil leaking into the engine?
4. the porbable cause i can think of is the piston o-rings or head gasket. any other probability?
5. can elanscan help to narrow down the problem?
any advise appreciated urgently.
tks

[esprit888]

White smoke is not typical of oil, this is generally an indication of water/coolant entering the combustion chamber. If its oil it has a tendancy to stick around in the air and has an odour, if its water/coolant then it exits as vapour/steam and will dissipate in the air. Are you losing coolant? (it only takes a little to create white smoke)

need some advice urgently
previously there was white smoke coming from the exhaust when i start the car. the smoke never goes away, so i thought it was the valve stem seal.
changed the valve stem seals i bought from SJS, and the smoke sitation was not solved.
before i start dismantling the engine to pieces, i need some advise.
3 of the plugs are soaked with oil, only 1 is clean.
the turbo pipes and such are dry, no traces of oil.
the smoke gets worse after the car warms up, lesser when it is cold.
questions:
1. other than the valve seals, what else could fail and cause oil to flow into the engine?
2. what does oil soaked plugs indicates?
3. how can i check what is causing the oil leaking into the engine?
4. the porbable cause i can think of is the piston o-rings or head gasket. any other probability?
5. can elanscan help to narrow down the problem?
any advise appreciated urgently.
tks

[PECKHS]

maybe i should correct myself. it is not entirely white. a hint of blue maybe, but it does have an odour
i'll try to take a video
tks

[Enright]

Have you done a compression test? If so what were the results?

[PECKHS]

Have you done a compression test? If so what were the results?

yes, did the compression test, was about 110-120..
there was oil on the 4 pistons
my friend is insisting the problem lies on the piston rings..

[ashm]

yes, did the compression test, was about 110-120..

I'd suspect the head gasket or rings. Check out other people's compression test results here. Most are around 150-160 or so...

Maybe try dry & wet compression tests to see if there's a difference - might help you narrow it down to the HG or rings.

Adam

[PECKHS]

yes, did the compression test, was about 110-120..

I'd suspect the head gasket or rings. Check out other people's compression test results here. Most are around 150-160 or so...

Maybe try dry & wet compression tests to see if there's a difference - might help you narrow it down to the HG or rings.

Adam

i did a quick search (still in the office, so has to be discreet) and realised that the average results were from 145-160 psi, so there is definitely something wrong.
i have the HG with me, but unable to check the piston rings in SJ sports cos steve's site seems to be down..
if i need to get the piston o-rings, are the one's from rock auto for the 91 impulse rs suitable for the job?
whatever it is, seems i will have to strip the engine

[theelanman]

HGF.....well thats my bet

[racerstev]

When you had the valve cover off was it clean inside or was caked oil present?

It's very rare to have rings wear this badly, the oil rings cold be stuck though, this would
cause oil in the cylinders.

But more then likely I would guess head gasket. Did you notice a loss of coolant at all?

White smoke=coolant

Blue smoke= oil

[chris.t]

could try a leak down test my guess is rings or hgf though.

[Specky]

And another tell-tale sign of slow head gasket failure is poor combustion, poor idling, acceleration etc...

TTFN

[tweetdriver63]

Have you done a compression test? If so what were the results?

yes, did the compression test, was about 110-120..
there was oil on the 4 pistons
my friend is insisting the problem lies on the piston rings..

Last winter when I was having problems, they did a compression test on mine. I don't have the results on me right now, but they told me all 4 cylinders were about 170 psi, and all 4 were within 4 psi of all the others. From looking at the wiki page, I think I'm doing very well in that department.

[PECKHS]

tks all for the various suggestions. really appreciate them.
i guess it would be best for me to strip the engine and have a good look at all the components now. it's a good time to rebuild the engine if necessary as it has got about nearly 100k miles on the engine.
cheers

[bobbrown]

There is one thing I do not quite get, if you have already changed the valve stem seals how was this done?
I know it is possible to do them in place but a right pain and it is more normal to remove the head.
As for rebuilding the engine I would expect an Elan engine to do lots more than 100K and many have mine included 128k and climbing.
If you get low compression figures across the engine then I would suspect something else is going on as it is unusual for all 4 to be down with a head gasket failure, just as I would not expect all the pistons/rings to have failed at the same time.
One minor point was the throttle fully open when you checked the compression if not that may go some way to explaining the low compression.

[PECKHS]

There is one thing I do not quite get, if you have already changed the valve stem seals how was this done?
I know it is possible to do them in place but a right pain and it is more normal to remove the head.
As for rebuilding the engine I would expect an Elan engine to do lots more than 100K and many have mine included 128k and climbing.
If you get low compression figures across the engine then I would suspect something else is going on as it is unusual for all 4 to be down with a head gasket failure, just as I would not expect all the pistons/rings to have failed at the same time.
One minor point was the throttle fully open when you checked the compression if not that may go some way to explaining the low compression.

the valve stem seals were replaced without removing the head. used compressed air to hold the pistons and a certain tool they had to extract and replace the seals. took them quite a long time though, and it is very tiring job.
the compression test was not done with a full throttle, will have to re-do it with the throttle fully opened then..
read somewhere that we can do a compression test after removing the plugs. how true is that? and how can that be possible?
my friend and i were also wondering the chances of all(well, 3) of the piston rings failing.
thing is, i can see the oil reflection upon removal of the plugs, by shining a light into the hole..

[PECKHS]

ok, did an elanscan. didn't realised the test was too short until i compared with the samples i have. test was done when the engine was warmed -up.

pls help to interpret. thanks.

[PECKHS]

here's how bad it is

http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q20/ ... I_2278.mp4

[Specky]

You'll need to remove all the spark plugs and measure one piston at a time. This way you are only measuring the compression of that cylinder. (There will be no discernible feedback from the other cylinders).

Don't forget to disconect the LT side of the coils (Satety first)

Do a cold reading and a warm reading takeing note of where you want the throttle for the test.

One question... Is your mechanic really a mechanic....

TTFN

[PECKHS]

You'll need to remove all the spark plugs and measure one piston at a time. This way you are only measuring the compression of that cylinder. (There will be no discernible feedback from the other cylinders).

Don't forget to disconect the LT side of the coils (Satety first)

Do a cold reading and a warm reading takeing note of where you want the throttle for the test.

One question... Is your mechanic really a mechanic....

TTFN

yes, my friend's a mechanic, but this is the first time he encounters an elan
i'm giving him instruction on how and what he need to do, sort of actually, with the help of the more enlightened elan owners here

most of the time when we do compression test around here, we connect the meter to the plug and read the psi. maybe you can let me know how it should be done propely instead?
tks

[Specky]

Use one of these compression testers...(or something similar)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-PETROL-ENG ... 5883fb32da

remove spark plugs

disconnect LT to the coils

fit this in one hole and crank engine (turn engine over for about three revolutions)

This may help

TTFN