Problems with the FFS Hi Spec Rear Calipers ?

[ailwyn]

Steve,

There's nothing stopping you, or anyone else, getting a refund... as far as I recall nobody has ever said it's an all-or-none option to get re-worked calipers

None of us are happy about waiting, but for me I've gone with this solution I don't intend to write off the cost of brackets, cables etc... if Hi-Spec are offering to cover that too then I'd happily go elsewhere, but I can't see that happening.

Best way to move hi-spec along is to annoy them to the point where they want rid of you or threaten to cost them sales/money, so if my suggestion is not a good one, then what's yours?

A.

[RayD]

There's nothing stopping you, or anyone else, getting a refund... as far as I recall nobody has ever said it's an all-or-none option to get re-worked calipers

The offer of a refund was open to anyone. As Ailwyn says it is not an “all or none” option.

It is a better idea to get a full refund.

I haven’t read every word on the subject lately so I don’t know if the modified callipers will have solved the amount of effort required to apply the hand brake.

If you think the modified ones are perfect for the Elan when they are finally ready there’ll be nothing to stop you buying some in order to make use of the brackets.

Do you think by HiSpec having all your money they are somehow making it a bigger priority than they would otherwise?

Ray

[bobbrown]

It is a better idea to get a full refund.

I haven’t read every word on the subject lately so I don’t know if the modified callipers will have solved the amount of effort required to apply the hand brake.

If you think the modified ones are perfect for the Elan when they are finally ready there’ll be nothing to stop you buying some in order to make use of the brackets.

Do you think by HiSpec having all your money they are somehow making it a bigger priority than they would otherwise?

Ray

So what are you implying?
People ask for their money back and then buy the calipers again once they have sorted the issues out?

These calipers were purchased at a discount and passed on to the members, if you get your money back it will not be at full retail and it will not include any delivery costs. If at a later date you buy them again the chances are you will pay full retail and the new VAT rate so you lose something like £100.00 doing it that way.

As for the handbrake issue that was one of the points I raised and they were looking at that as part of the redesign not just the leaks.

In answer to your last question they are just incredibly slow at getting anything out of the door and when you ask for a “special” it seems to take even longer!
Even their Billet 4's can take weeks to arrive and they are their main product

[Alan_C]

I gave Hi Spec a ring today too. Hopefully the more hassle they receive from us the more they will be inclined to get us sorted and out of their hair. Geoff wasn't available, as usual. The bloke I did speak to was well aware of our issue. He yet again confirmed that a prototype calliper is on test, on their dynamic brake test machine, undergoing strenuous and repeated hydraulic and hand brake applications. He went on to say the new calliper should be in production within the next 2 weeks and to contact Bob about replacements.

I reminded him that all this delay is causing a lot of anxiety to the many customers who through this forum have their product. Whilst explaining that the many months we have to wait is now unacceptable, he continued to fob me off with the “ring us back in 2 weeks” line.

I suggest we all ring them, 01322 286850, continuously, every day if possible.

[bobbrown]

Hi Spec ear bending time,

I've asked them to commit to a date the first ones will be done by, not pie in the sky dates, firm dates they can commit to.
I just hope for once they can be proffesional enough to set a realistic date they can achieve but past history does lead me to believe that they will not keep to it. The date also needs to be acceptable to us as a further delay of several weeks is not exceptable so if they say anything more than two weeks my toys are going to come out of the pram.

Really makes me wonder if they have any understanding of the size of the problem and I did point out that there is something like 25 to 30 of our cars out there with these fitted.

I also did a trawl on google and we are not the only ones with this problem although they like to indicate we are, when in fact we are not, any thing from a Cossie to Locost.

I started all this back the beginning of November and we are now nearly at the end of March so it has taken them nearly 5 months

Not happy

Bob

[RayD]

So what are you implying?

People ask for their money back and then buy the calipers again once they have sorted the issues out?

I didn’t intend to sound indirect or vague … I was saying … people should ask for their money back, then, if the new ones suited the Élan perfectly they could buy them when they became available … and get some value out of the made to measure brackets

These calipers were purchased at a discount and passed on to the members, if you get your money back it will not be at full retail and it will not include any delivery costs.

I would only expect people to get back what they paid.

If at a later date you buy them again the chances are you will pay full retail and the new VAT rate so you lose something like £100.00 doing it that way.

I understand what you’re saying but if each person who had a refund said they would have the new version if it proved to be suitable, I can imagine – under the circumstances – them looking kindly on the new price, notwithstanding the vat increase

In answer to your last question they are just incredibly slow at getting anything out of the door and when you ask for a “special” it seems to take even longer!
Even their Billet 4's can take weeks to arrive and they are their main product

I don’t know that it does answer my question … I was asking if people thought there might somehow be an advantage to HiSpec having the money and the customers holding the faulty goods.

At present they are only working towards replacing 60 callipers FOC.

I thought they might be slightly keener if they were working towards getting the money back they had paid out in refunds. It might also improve the chances of the new ones being suitable.

Ray

[Elanlover]

Personally, while I understand the sentiment regarding getting a refund, I don't think its going to accomplish anything except complicate the matter further. I doubt it will make them drop everything with the end result being that the calipers magically show up tomorrow. I'm not of the mind to make them rush through this testing either given the results of the last set of calipers. Besides, its more likely that they say "sure" then take 10 weeks to issue a refund. Do we really think they'll work faster on a refund than the brakes? Plus I've no doubt we'll all have to remove the calipers and give them back before we get the money with all the problems that'll cause. I for one need some form of braking for the rear wheels.

Unfortunatley, all we can do practically is keep on them. We've chosen a good product from a shitty company (through no fault of Bob's) and we're going to have to live with it for now.

[Steve A]

far as I recall nobody has ever said it's an all-or-none option

Unfortunately for all you guys who have already fitted them it really is all-or-none
and like you said you've invested in brackets etc, that applies to most I would have thought.

so if my suggestion is not a good one, then what's yours?

I suggested a refund, it might gee them up ? but I now realise it's not that straight forward

Those of us who have invested in these brakes are all very frustrated to say the least,
there doesn't seem to be too much we can do about it, Hi Spec are holding most of the cards

We've chosen a good product from a shitty company

Well I suppose it looks nice, but it's certainly not what I'd call good yet

[saska]

It seems various people have different ideas about how to apply pressure on HiSpec to fix the problem:
1. Ask for refund
2. Lots of people ring them everyday
3. Get them some bad PR via the car magazines (who get paid to run their adverts)

Problem is those who've fitted these have not just fitted the calipers but also the rear hub converion, different rear discs and maybe H/B cables.
They may not have retained the old calipers/pads and/or they may not work. At the very least you'd have to obtain new discs to put stock rear calipers back on.
There is also the problem that those with 293mm fronts are going to have a serious frt/rear imbalance with stock 240mm rears.
There are a few other measures that could be taken but they need to be viewed in the context of the above problems:
1. Submit a complaint to Trading Standards saying the calipers are: A) Not fit for purpose and B) Dangerous
2. Advise the Ministry of Transport of the same
3. Run an Internet campaign against HiSpec and send them regular updates of their Google ranking (for example) and what it says when the query 'HiSpec Brake Problems' is submitted. Submit problem posts to Pistonheads forums, etc. and again advise Hispec. Add Facebook/Twitter posts and advise HiSpec of the same. i don't do FB or Twitter but I'm sure some do.
4. Write to honestjohn and other newspaper journalists, Which, and other consumer protection media. Point out the problem exists on other cars besides ours.

OK so what are the problems with the above:
Firstly, Bob is in no way responsible for Hispec's design flaw (he's the one who figured out how to fix it) and I would not like to see him caught up in any fallout. The problem with a TS complaint is, in the UK, it is the seller who has primary responsibility for sorting out problems. As far as I can see Bob has done his very best in this regard but persuading TS that HiSpec are the problem may be difficult.
Secondly, Hispec may just (and to some extent already have) offered a refund to everyone, which may satisfy TS, but still leaves us without rear calipers.
Advising MoT is v. hazardous as those guys take no prisoners. Dunno what they might do -- 'if you don't have a very good idea of the answer, don't ask the question' is a wise legal maxim.
Think if we ring them everyday, sooner or later they'll just start hanging up the phone.

I tend to think running an Internet campaign and advising them via email may be the best alternative. They would have to be quite savvy to stop the emails. The domain hispecmotorsport.co.uk is hosted by Legend (now owned by Demon) so filtering the emails is possible but they'd have to be quite smart to do it. If this were coupled with letters to honestjohn/consumer protection media then Hispec may start paying attention.

Running an Internet campaign is certainly do-able and quite hard for HiSpec to stop but never forget it may well live forever.
2p

[Elanlover]

I would suspect that advising MOT is not a good idea. I know Wilwood, AP and others say "this" but I never though to look if HiSpec takes the same stance. "This" to be something like - these brakes are not approved for road use and should only be used on track (with all the accompanying exemptions of liability). So, contacting MOT and teling thme what you have on your car may cause more problems.

As for spreading bad press, etc. let me ask you this. When you get bad service in a restaurant do you complain bitterly during the meal and threaten no tip or do you wait until you're done and let your wallet do the talking? I don't want HiSpec's equivalent of the cook's saliva in my meal if you know what I mean. There's a time and place for everything.

[RayD]

I understand the problems some people would have replacing the rear HiSpecs if they were to return them for a refund.

I think the people who still have them in the box should return them … if nothing else it would establish a refund was still available.

On 25 August 2010 Geoff Bedding told Ray Dodd … HiSpec were keen to make sure everyone is happy. People should contact them with their concerns. They will be able to exchange them for a current different type – or wait for the new one to become available – or if they are particularly disappointed, have a refund.

I wouldn’t start a campaign … but if you do, it might be better to identify the scale of the problem first … some people have spoke highly of the rear brakes.

Ray

[MPx]

I'm one who has been quite happy with the HiSpec kit. That's because:
1. They are much more effective than the std brakes at stopping the car
2. They look the part
3. Mine haven't gone wrong ........yet.

However, I can see that there is a design issue with the handbrake and my seals will go wrong idc and then I'll be p****d off - and it is stupidly hard to pull on 2 clicks which is a significant disincentive to use it. In fact the seals probably haven't gone wrong yet cos I hardly ever use the handbrake. Never on the road, and when I park at home the cars kept on the ramp and the handbrake's not on - so its only used when I'm both out in it, and parked....ie hardly ever!

When Bob put together the group buy that I was involved in, I think I waited around 10 months from paying up to getting the kit. HiSpec are clearly not very interested in maximising profits - since the prepayment was to protect Bob and his finances and NOT an early payment to HiSpec. If they were interested in the money, presumably they'd have made the callipers a bit quicker when ordered? So I'm seeing this as a hobby business pretending to be professional but really just a bunch of engineers doing whatever takes their fancy. As such, I very much doubt that financial pressures could be bought to bear nor would be effective even if they were.

There is some potential in becoming the annoying tick because that might get a result just to stop us. However, we've seen the business model. I'm sure we are not having a unique customer experience with them, so my guess is that just about everyone gets on to them about the delay and waiting and they just lay it all off without really noticing – hence the stock glib phrases that appear to show things moving along but don’t actually relate to any one specific job. So to become a tick that might get a result we've got to be significantly more annoying than all the other ticks - and I seriously doubt that we'd have the energy and resolve to see it through.

I suspect that they like dealing with Bob cos he’s an engineer too and actively contributes to making things better. That approach should eventually yield results. They will like to be seen by another engineer to be delivering a well engineered solution. Poblem is the open ended timescale, partly constrained by how much time Bob can afford or be bothered to keep on at them with.

The only other route I can see is to try stinging their integrity as an engineering firm. Its what they appear to love doing so presumably they would have some disquiet if their reputation was threatened in some way. All firms have bad days, and I always think its more telling how they deal with an issue that arises than if they pretend there are never any issues. Designing a new solution and replacing the faulty part FOC is textbook good practice. However, there must be some element of timeliness involved in that. They are doing it aren’t they? They’re not just pretending? So if we’re not prepared to continue to wait for Bob’s magic to work on them, my suggestion is:

1 Identify the real boss of HiSpec
2 Write to him personally outlining the problem, the solution identified, and the expectation of us as customers. Say that this matter needs to be drawn to a rapid conclusion or we would be forced to share our experiences more widely within the industry in order to identify another solution with an appropriately short timescale.
3 Set out the timeline that we have had from initial failures to now – highlighting the differing stories given by different individuals on different dates.
4 Ask for a commitment in writing for when the replacements will be available.
5 Ask for a nominated project manager with authority in the company who can make it happen and carries responsibility if it doesn’t (ideally will be the top man).
6 Schedule a weekly phone call for update that is recorded and if necessary escalated if the story doesn’t progress or repeats itself.
7 If it comes to it, all that evidence would make an entertaining story for the aftermarket press so is a proper threat......but of course having gone nuclear that would see our investment written off.
It’s also a shed load of ag for whoever takes it on.....

[bobbrown]

1 Identify the real boss of HiSpec
2 Write to him personally outlining the problem, the solution identified, and the expectation of us as customers. Say that this matter needs to be drawn to a rapid conclusion or we would be forced to share our experiences more widely within the industry in order to identify another solution with an appropriately short timescale.
3 Set out the timeline that we have had from initial failures to now – highlighting the differing stories given by different individuals on different dates.
4 Ask for a commitment in writing for when the replacements will be available.
5 Ask for a nominated project manager with authority in the company who can make it happen and carries responsibility if it doesn’t (ideally will be the top man).
6 Schedule a weekly phone call for update that is recorded and if necessary escalated if the story doesn’t progress or repeats itself.
7 If it comes to it, all that evidence would make an entertaining story for the aftermarket press so is a proper threat......but of course having gone nuclear that would see our investment written off.
It’s also a shed load of ag for whoever takes it on.....

Some I can answer

1. The owner is a guy named Geoff Beddings
3. I hope to have a confirmed time line on Monday
4. I do not think having it in writing would help but it may help if you wanted to sue for breach of contract.
5. NFC company is too small and Geoff is supposed to be dealing with this
6. Been doing that but not every week and the story never tallies up, you need to have a good memory to lie and I do remember what was said all be it not word for word.


As a point of interest I do not think taking a hard line will work and I have a feeling that if that approach is taken you may well see Geoff telling us all to get lost and that is not going to be beneficial to any one. It would appear he has done this in the past when he has not met deadlines or things have not gone according to plan.

Some others have had problems with Hi Spec and most are to do with discs and in particular disc run out, but these calipers do crop up if you search the internet.

If you take the state of Hi Specs web site I think you may find they are not that switched on to the internet or email if it comes to that, I believe the email all goes into one pot and only gets answered if your lucky once a day and not necessarily the same day .

[GeoffSmith]

Slippery than a slippery eel and it looks like Geoff Bedding is the boss/proprietor and is 'more than a tad odd and a stranger to the truth'. They haven't appeared to be too interested in Trading Standards in the past and I wonder if the offer of a refund is hot air - 'go to Trading Standards, i dont care, but your not getting your money back'. I wonder if it's worth getting in touch with Pete Harris (Operations Manager of Simon-Hartley)?

http://domain1886493.sites.streamlinedn ... brakes.htm

[RayD]

... I do not think taking a hard line will work and I have a feeling that if that approach is taken you may well see Geoff telling us all to get lost and that is not going to be beneficial to anyone.

I agree,

Ray

[lotusgirlmarie]

I really do feel for everyone involved in this. Having had a similar experience with a wheel manufacture here in the states with my previous car. I tried for quite some time to get justice and ended up airing them. It cost me as much to sue as I spent on the wheels but it was the principal behind it. Even with the judgement against them the still never paid up. And modifies their name, changed location and conveniently lost my records. Just goes to show that there are some odd individuals out there. We all have our off days myself included. In the end ones true character come to the front.

[MPx]

Some I can answer
..............
As a point of interest I do not think taking a hard line will work and I have a feeling that if that approach is taken you may well see Geoff telling us all to get lost and that is not going to be beneficial to any one. It would appear he has done this in the past when he has not met deadlines or things have not gone according to plan.

As I thought then Bob. I'm sure you are doing all that can sensibly be done and more, and over a much longer period, than any of the rest of us would be prepared to do. Many thanks for keeping up the campaign on our behalf. Really hoping that all that effort will bear fruit soon.

[Steve A]

http://domain1886493.sites.streamlinedn ... brakes.htm









Reading all that has made me feel so much better

Good luck with that one Bob

[bobbrown]

It is also worth noting this is all quite old dated 2003

[Avonvilla]

It is also worth noting this is all quite old dated 2003

I take it they know there are quite a lot of these cars now off the road awaiting new parts ?