New door handle escutcheons

[havacs]

1. Wayne
2. DaveB - Carbon Fibre only...(not broken my originals... yet!)
3. DeanG
4. Brit-Car-Nut
5. Brit-Car-Nut
6. ex-exige (if they're £20-25, I'll take two pairs)
7. smudge
8. Geoff
9. Lansledj
10. maz_r (These or c/f; whichever comes to fruition first...)
11. inkitin
12. Dunnlor
13. rip
14. rip
15. theelanman
16. Dave Eds
17. Bob
18. Hatters
19. Pinky
20. Gazza
21. Paza1
22. Steve M
23. LGM
24. LGM
25. Lotus54
26. Cliff
27. Epipete
28. Camalot
29. Ekapol
30. Ekapol
31. NSR250
32. havacs

[Camalot]

I am confused about the request for a picture to determine if injection or vacuum mold. I thought the club had previously run off a batch of Carbon fiber and a batch of plastic ones. Are the previous suppliers unavailable ?

I certainly can get you a picture, but could also get a supplier local to me Chicago, IL that I could drop the part of at this Thursday 10/27 for a competitive bid. He would offer to do it in plastic but would also have the mold costs we would need to offset with volume. He does carbon fiber but says not the same mold type, too expensive for low volume.

[theelanman]

We had done c/f before but not plastic......

Plastic ones are the new venture.....

[F1 LOTUS]

FYI
You can see in the photo that this is an [cheap] injection-molded (or cast) part - The two hooks sprouting from the surface rule-out vacuum-forming as the process, also the small circular marks. A vac-formed part is nominally constant thickness - literally a sheet draped over a mold / pattern.

However....it would be possible to make these by vac-forming. When I made some carbon parts many years ago, in order to keep the moulds simple you must ensure that all moulded surfaces are visible from one direction so nothing can get trapped in the tool - the same applies to vac-forming, although being less rigid you can 'cheat' a bit and flex the part off the tool. So making a vac-forming tool and 'machine' for these parts isn't that difficult - there's plenty of demo's on-line http://www.build-stuff.com/1001plans_hobby_vac.htm
Or a real budget version http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-good,-cheap,-upgradeable-sheet-plastic-vacu/ Don't forget to wear sandals

Another option would be to cast parts in urethane - again, not that expensive or difficult to do? With this method you could recreate the surface texture and all the original's features
http://www.freemansupply.com/video.htm

The molds and patterns I made were donated to an LEC member in England (Darren???) - don't know what became of them?...
Have fun!

[Nige]

We are definitely talking about plastic ones here, not CF. I'd forgotten that the patterns and moulds had been passed to Darren and as he's not been sighted around here for a while I have no idea what he has done with them. I've PM'd him in the hope of an answer to that question. It seems to me that with patterns and moulds available getting someone to produce these is "relatively" straightforward.

[bobbrown]

The patterns and moulds will no doubt be for a glassfiber/carbonfiber item not as Wayne is suggesting plastic ones.
The moulds already produced may not lend them selves to a vacuum forming, if they are made from glassfiber then they are not suitable due to the heat.
Strange as it seems wooden moulds work for vaccum forming as long as you are not making too many like 500+ .
If memory servers me the carbon fiber ones were around £65.00 the pair not £20.00 as Wayne is suggesting.
The cost differential is down in some part to the material costs and the time it takes to make each one, vacuum forming is a much faster process as you only have to wait for the plastic to cool not cure in the case of Polyester resin.
That assumes they can be tracked down.

I did do a little research in low cost injection moulding and to get down to a reasonable cost you need to produce about 100 of each side, not that bad on the face of it bit the part needs to be in a 3D model and that may be a little tricky, who's got access to a 3D scanner?

Bob

[Nige]

The CF escutcheons were about £65 the pair. If we can track down the moulds/patterns then we will be able to see what can be done with them, if anything. I've done some Vac Forming in the past and believe it could work for these if the hooks on the back of the escutcheon were dispensed with.

[dapinky]

I've done some Vac Forming in the past and believe it could work for these if the hooks on the back of the escutcheon were dispensed with.

As luck would have it, i find myself reading this post whilst looking at a pair of the CF ones which have been living by the side of my sofa for a couple of years....

There are no hooks on the CF ones - relying on the single screw to hold them in place, and i don't recall anyone posting to say they dont sit right when fitted.

perhaps a bit of an 'adaptation' whereby a small lip is added to the length, just to catch under the door card at the back would work, seing as i expect the plastic ones to be less rigid than the CF ones (note to pedants everywhere, I am fully aware that 'plastic' is a verb, not a noun, and is being used incorrectly, as plastic cannot be rigid by definition!).

Now, I know little/nothing about vacuum forming (other than i believe you heat up a sheet of material and let it melt (sinter?) over a former (made of whatever they're made of), alow it to cool, and job done!), but it "appears" to me to be a simple(ish) shape to create looking at the CF ones I have....

Would this pair of CF escutcheons in this material be the basis of a former/mold/tool for the project, or would the heat in the process make them unviable?

I have to admit that the surface finish on them may need a bit of fine finishing, but if it helps the world to progress, I can send them to someone who knows what they're looking at/for.

[bobbrown]

Dave pictures may help

If the CF ones do not have the clips for the door cards then it should be possible to vacuum form them from a thicker material than the originals may be 3mm which should make the fit similar to the CF ones and ridgid enough not to need the clips, but they could be added by sticking them on, assuming ABS is uses as that is easy to bond abs to abs.

[Nige]

I cut the hooks off my CF ones when I fitted them as they were so stiff I simply couldn't get them to fit with them, the single screw on each have held them in place without a problem for several years now.

[theelanman]

I used the clips to fix mine and avoided drilling n screwing it in place......n mine havent moved either.........

[dapinky]

I'll try and take some pics of the CF ones (front and back) to see if it assists anyone (cos i don't know how it works, or what material should be used!)

[F1 LOTUS]

Now I think about it, the pair I made in carbon fitted so nicely (more luck than design ) I didn't need the hooks or a fastener - for security I just used a 1cm sq pad of either double-sided adhesive foam tape or (more likely as I was surrounded by it) some 'Tacky Tape' - the stuff used for making composite vacuum-bags.
Thickness - I think you would need to selectively thicken certain areas, otherwise fitting will probably be an issue - that could be another attraction of casting urethane parts.

Patterns - I used my old parts for the pattern (+epoxy tooling board), which means that would not be suitable for vac-forming (parts would be too big). The molds could be made to work though as they are high-temp epoxy / glass fiber - being a 'female' mold, it would need some strategically placed vent holes to ensure no air gets trapped.

[wayne]

Sorry for starting this thread and then disappearing for a month. Anyway I arrived home the other day so will try to get things sorted out asap.

After reading bobs concerns about the rear of the part I have contacted the company again to conferm that this is ok. I had mentioned it to them and sent several photos with dimensions and they didn't seem to be concerned about it and I am waiting their reply.

I'll ask the question to see if these are possible
Any one got a picture of the back face to see if it will lend it's self to vaccum forming as if it needs injection moulding the the cost for the tooling will put it out of reach

Well, it seems like it was a problem... They can not bond on the retaining lugs... Thanks Bob !

I am currently looking at several alternatives.

1. accept the current vacummed formed outer appearence at £20 a set that is secured only by the fixing screw and has no rear lugs
2. Injection formed product at about £30 a set that would be identical to origional but made slightly thicker to prevent cracking in the future
3. Find a manufacturer that will be able to supply some sort of rear lugs. (probably a Z section to locate 1 or more of what appear to be the 2 locating
positions on the origionals.
4. Look for a manufacturer that can offer an injected moulded part for £20 a set. (awaiting replys from another 24 companies)
5. Look for a vac forming company that can attach rear clips and match origional price of £20 a set. (still awaiting replys from several companies but quotes recieved upto now have been almost as expensive as injection moulding
5. Anyone else want to check to see if they can get it done cheaper locally?

My personal preference would be go with injection moulding as I would have a product that looks like origional but thicker and 20 years newer but may cost upto £30 a set. I know it is a big increase in price and I do not know if I will be able to improve on this as yet.... when I recieve other quotes I will let you know. Worst quote upto now worked out at almost £200 / set !!

Whichever way we go the mould cost is the main expense. If anyone would like a set "just incase theirs had to be removed in the future" then maybe quote as possible (I recently removed 1 that had a crack for a photo and is now in 2 parts ) !! #

This is still Not comitted to buy. !! I'm just loooking for who would be interested in which product so as I know which avenue to persue....

Not sure what what way to go about gathering peoples opinions?? Moderators please edit post to suit. I would be interested in any option as both mine are now broken.... I'd rather pay a bit more and get an origional looking produce but will be happy to go with the prefered option but would happily accept the other options.

1. Wayne prefered option vac formed upto £30 Option Vac formed £20 no clips. Option: vac formed upto £30 with clips.

[hatters]

I think £30.00 a pair is a fair price taking in to consideration all the tooling up required, but for that much I think they should incorporate the locating clips

[epipete]

£30.00 a pair for something that replicates the original & restores the cabin appearance is really not expensive guys, how much would Lotus charge if they still made them? I'd have thought that anyone who owns an M100 would have a need!

[GeoffSmith]

I think £30 for a pair of good reproduction escutcheons is very reasonable.

[dapinky]

Pinky is still on the bus at £30 a pair

[nicowalker1]

im in on this for £30

[DeanG]

I prefer the original look. 30 pounds is OK by me. Thanks for your efforts in this.