What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

[epipete]

Peter, my view is that the Cill section should be completely sealed from external water ingress.

The only susceptible weaknesses being around the jacking points themselves or actual damage to the external fibreglass; other than that the holes in the internal metal areas will obviously allow water that comes in to the cabin an avenue to exploit! The foam below the carpets cannot help matters as it never dries out!

I think that the hood should direct water through a conduit in the 'a' pillar and the plastic tread panal should seal the water outside so in either case water should not be entering the cabin!

Where the seals leak they can be modified using sikaflex and there is a process described on here somewhere.

[Jeemy]

When i filled my cavities with dinitrol ml3125, it dripped out in 3 places from inside the sills. I thought i was done working from the inside (see my thread and pics) but I am going to check once more very carefully inside and at the base of the B-pillars before moving to the underside.

It seems somebody has already drilled holes, this is new info to me and i just presumed the sills drained like any other car.

I am certainly happier that they do but from the direction my rust was forming, it was from the carpet side. I'm going to do my best with the weatherseals, and always keep it under a cover, but would like to consider any steps i can to prevent water causing further damage.

The base of my tub has 2 large (~15mm) plugged holes. These seem too big to want to remove. I am certainly going to look into better insulation/underlay and am wondering whether small holes, perhaps with fibreglass protectors to stop water coming in the wrong direction, are also an option!

[Jeemy]

Somebody posted earlier today, a cross-section diagram I had not seen, showing drain holes that are meant to be there, so the 3 positions I have the Dinitrol running out, seem to be correct.

As my project creeps and creeps, I have had to take a few days to work! But my next step will be to revisit in detail every new problem point I have heard of since "finishing" my outriggers-from-the-inside stage, up to and including removing the petrol tank if need be. F*ck it, if I am doing this, I am doing it thoroughly and correctly throughout.

I'll take some detailed photos of the insides with the cameraphone trick, and then document everything that happens as the car spends the next 3-4 weeks on ramps and hopefully by the time I am finished, I'll have amassed some decent info on where the problems are and how to fix them. Please anybody who hasn't and are reading this, click on my name, visit my Project Cars - Major topic and take a look at whats been done so far - I'd far rather have "too many" comments now than realize I missed something later!

[epipete]

Somebody posted earlier today, a cross-section diagram I had not seen, showing drain holes that are meant to be there, so the 3 positions I have the Dinitrol running out, seem to be correct!

Yep, I noted that as well, came as a surprise as I thought that the Cills would be completely isolated from the outside world and wouldn't therefore need the holes!

[epipete]

Finally, ended the Autumn on a positive note last week.

In summary, having lost my coolant via the heater matrix & the subsequent shorting of my coils and AA tow home, with the help of this forum and members herein (thanks) I replaced the heater matrix, then the heater unit and all the vacuum pipes; replaced the coils, ignition cables, spark plugs and undertook an outrigger (inc jacking point) repair as detailed by Bob earlier in this thread, lacking fabrication and welding skills I used Malmesbury Specialist Motors for those aspects and they have done a cracking job, though they advise that they won't do this again as it cost them 17 hours labour!!! And though they didn't pass all of that on to me the bill thy did proffer soured our relationship (temporarily, I'm sure I'll get over it ) eventually! All topped off with a new mot with no advisories. So aside from my broken wheel bolts, oh and the weather, I'm good to roll for several more years yet!

Thanks to everyone who helped and advised.

Pete

[basher]

Just out of interest, as regards the outrigger issue, has anyone tried to address the rears yet, beyond squirting rustkiller into the cavity?

[epipete]

Just out of interest, as regards the outrigger issue, has anyone tried to address the rears yet, beyond squirting rustkiller into the cavity?

I was advised by a reputable source that the rear area was not so prone to rust and should be ok although because it is nigh on impossible to see it is difficult o confirm. The area that I was advised was becoming an issue, after the front outriggers, is the crash bar in the doors!

[basher]

I think that if the front jacking point /outrigger is rusty, the likelihood is that the back will be as well. I don't suppose that necessarily follows as my pasenger outrigger is in a lot better condition that the drivers side and I don't really get that.

Drivers side, if you remove all the trim around the battery tray and hood storage area and shine a torch down the cavity beside the battery you should be able to see what you are up against. If you can see the top of the jacking point, like I could, then this means that the top edge of the outrigger has rotted away. Otherwise you may just see rust, or you could be absolutely fine. I was prompted to look this far because inside the cabin, the outrigger behind the drivers seat was very rusty. Worst case you can put a digital camera in the cavity through one of the outriggers circular holes and take a picture inside to see the situation. On the passenger side the fuel tank is in the way and makes seeing the situation from above with the torch more difficult.
I have some pictures that I will post.
Even in this situation, the car would still jack up on the jacking point and I didn't get any creaking noises, or jack head dissapearing that I have heard about. My thinking is that this much decay has to be addressed sooner rather than later and I'm not going to even attempt the 'easier' front outrigger until I have succeeded (or failed) with the back.

Hence my query on whether anyone has attempted a repair yet.

BTW saw the crash bar in the doors when I redid the weatherstrips- as I remember I painted some bits with POR 15 at the time..

[epipete]

The problem is that effecting any repair to the rear outriggers will necessitate removal of panels to reveal the component requiring replacement/treatment and this is major surgery; similarly, but perhaps not so dramatically, repair to the outside face of the door beam would also require disassembly of the door, though I accept the criticality of this is much less.

[rip]

I think that if the front jacking point /outrigger is rusty, the likelihood is that the back will be as well.

I can certainly see rust at the rear of mine. Until you mentioned it, the rear seemed to be getting ignored largely because nobody could see it.
I'm no welder & I don't think pouring a tin of POR-15 down there & hoping for the best is a solution.

I am concerned about my outriggers but don't really know what to do & I imagine there are more like me out there.

[epipete]

I think that if the front jacking point /outrigger is rusty, the likelihood is that the back will be as well.

I am concerned about my outriggers but don't really know what to do & I imagine there are more like me out there.

Rip, I don't think that repairing the fronts is too daunting, true it can be time consumming and you may need to call in some expertise, but you can actually access the area, cut out the rust, obtain & prepare the replacement sections and, if you're unskilled like me, you need to employ someone to fabricate the new jacking points and do the welding but then you have the opportunity to oversee all the work.

As to the rears, repairs here are, I fear, best left to a body shop with all the expense incumbant. But if you can determine that the area is still relatively sound then a course of rust converter, stabaliser & inhibiter may give many years of confidence. It is afterall worth bearing in mind that the car jacks on the front even for changing rear wheels & so, whilst I wouldn't be foolish enough to suggest the area isn't structural, for practical purposes management of the area is probably the best rout to take. But patently if the rot is extensive then IMHO you either have a very expensive repair or a potentially dead Elan!

[basher]

I understand the reluctance to remove the panels to get at the problem. I guess this was my major concern and I spent a lot of time walking around it thinking about what to do and understanding the 'geography' of the car back there.
I am also 'unskilled' and will at some point have to call in help for welding and fabrication, which is why I was asking if if anyone had tried it- because I'm going to have a go.
The plan is to go in through the rear wheel arch and remove the jacking point-fabricate a new 'insert' with the new jacking point in it and slide it snugly into the cavity alongside the existing outrigger up to the seat belt mount. This will then be welded and bonded into position inside.
Hopefully any replacement bodywork that need to be done will be effectively hidden in the arch, so if it doesn't look concourse, then it will soon be caked in dirt and mud and no-one will notice.

If it works, then all well and good, if it doesn't then another person will be breaking an Elan on E-bay albeit considerably cheaper than DVB!!

[epipete]

An interesting approach, and why not?

As the pioneer please keep us up to speed, with lots of pics, as you progress.

Maybe a new thread 'What to do about rust in the rear outriggers'

[rip]

The plan is to go in through the rear wheel arch and remove the jacking point-fabricate a new 'insert' with the new jacking point in it and slide it snugly into the cavity alongside the existing outrigger up to the seat belt mount. This will then be welded and bonded into position inside.
Hopefully any replacement bodywork that need to be done will be effectively hidden in the arch, so if it doesn't look concourse, then it will soon be caked in dirt and mud and no-one will notice.

Interesting idea. I don't know the Elan well enough to know if this is possible.
I am sure there are some on here who do though.

Looks like you gave the Cricketers a miss tonight too?

[basher]

Yeah, gave 'The Cricketers' a miss, took the opportunity to grab a few hours in the garage and make a start (bloody cold in there it was too!)

I have run the idea past a few people in the know who think it should work, there are are some issues that will need to be overcome, but we'll see.
I will get some photos in.

[surfboardfiller]

You have the B Pillar in the way which you may find is the worst spot of the car for corrosion.
If you open up the bodywork to get to the b pillar you won't get to the outrigger unless you remove the b pillar.

Get to the outrigger next to the seat and then deal with the B Pillar separately. It may be like a well or like a new car but it depends on how good the seals have been around the B post cap area.
It's a tight squeeze even for my artisan hands, I put my hand down there some years ago and pulled out a hand full of corroded metal.

B Post inner2 small.jpg

B Post inner small.jpg

[surfboardfiller]

As for the door bar, most people just replace the door.

[epipete]

As for the door bar, most people just replace the door.

Well of course, but they are a finite commodity

[surfboardfiller]

Then keep the old one in the garage/loft/shed with all the other finite commodities never likely to go on a car.

[basher]

I think I've got you well beaten for corrosion, but unfortunately I vacuumed the rust out so I haven't got any large pieces left. I did get a rusty bit of sponge which it looks like you have too.

I don't plan to remove the B-pillar or do much with it. As I look down the cavity beside the battery tray (all the inner trim is removed) I can see the bottom of the sill. This means that the top of my outrigger where it joins the B pillar, has completely rotted through. This means that it is no longer joined to the outrigger at that point. Also, in the process of removing the jacking point, i had to cut the outrigger away from the horizontal - side to side 'crossbrace'? ( I will have to look up the proper terminology)that is at the back of the cabin and joins the side of the car to the centre console. This part of the outrigger was also fairly rotten, although it is handy in a way because it gives me lots of access to the area around the jacking point and the outrigger cavity.
Because of this, the B-post doesn't prevent me from having access in and out of the outrigger channel. When the new insert goes in , I can re-weld a right angled bracket from the visible part of the insert along the outrigger hole to the 'crossbrace?' and hopefully return strength to that area. I might be able to reattach the top of the insert to the b-pillar after its put in, but I can't see welding being possible in there.





Looking down the cavity beside the battery tray.


in through the arch


Not too obvious once repaired?



Jacking point and cup.

As I say- its a unskilled persons plan. It may not work at all.



This I guess is why it is all necessary, the state of my outrigger.