What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

[epipete]

So how come the jacking point is in such good condition?

[basher]

I have already attacked that with a grinder and dremel ready painting with POR 15 - or similar, because that will go in the insert.
On the sides, overall it was in good condition. At the extremes- such as the bottom, there was rust in place.
Basically, it can be in really good condition, but if the metal it is attached to has rusted, then it will fail.

[muley]

Basher

This is an excellent thread with great pics.

Any chance of taking some key measurements off the jacking brace before it disappears again (hopefully forever)

Cheers

Jim

[basher]

Yep, I'll see what I can do.

[surfboardfiller]

I see your B Pillar won't get in the way as it seems to have gone.

[basher]

As requested, please find a plan for the jacking point with dimensions. If anyone has any specific questions, please ask as it won't be going in just yet.



Apologies if the plans are a little iffy, I haven't done much drawing of this type since school and it's a tricky shape- I found it a lot easier to draw free hand. I can't really be specific about the hole for the bolt and the captive nut assembly so please don't rely on it.

It would be fair to say that my B-post pillar has disintegrated a bit, yes. Just to clarify, as I haven't said much about this, the jacking structure is bolted through the bottom of the sill (there is a captive nut inside the jacking point) and also spot welded to the vertical of the outrigger in about 5 places each side. Decay was substantial enough that we removed mine by sawing through the outrigger at the very extreme behind the drivers seat in the cabin and smashing through the welds with a chisel at the other end through the hole we made in the arch.
If you don't fancy that, there is a 'flat' on the fibreglass inboard of the jacking structure.You might/should be able to cut a window in that and then drill the spot welds out, we didn't do that as I thought we had made enough holes in the fibreglass for the time being. I will try for a photo again next time I'm underneath it.
The advantage of this is again that it would be invisible once repaired and covered in mud, dirt, oil etc.Whether it's advisable is another matter...

[muley]

Excellent! Thanks for that..

Good luck with the rebuild.


Jim

[basher]

A little more progress.
We have measured up and decided what we need for the insert in terms of size and design. In the next week or so it will be off to a local engineering firm to get the design checked for viability and costed out, at the same time we will ask about getting some replacement external jacking cups made. Mine are fairly well rusted after a lifetime of being a foot from the road in all weathers..

[basher]

Just thought I would update as we slowly move forward.
Insert designed and cut. It slides snugly into the outrigger cavity up to the seatbelt mount, which is why the end is angled. As we move forward we will weld metal over both ends to make a complete 'box'. This should add to the strength and also give us something to fibreglass up against at the wheelarch end. We are not now refitting the jacking point, the insert itself will become the jacking point. In order for this to be the case we will weld a cative nut to the inside of the insert although this will be on top of an angled 'shim' as you will notice that the box goes in at a slight angle.
Jacking strength will be given by attaching the box to the b-pillar in two places 1. A right angled bracket on the top ot he box and 2. a straight plate from the side of the box to the side face of the b pillar. We will also fit a right angled bracket in the cabin through the hole in the original outrigger to the plate behind the seat.
I also took the opportunity to get the engineering firm to knock me up some new jacking plates too.

Insert in place - inside view.

Insert side on

End on view

Jacking plate (I will invest in a new bolt!)

Battery tray view down with right angled bracket

View in from wheelarch- notice angle.

[surfboardfiller]

How heavy is that insert, is it stainless?

[basher]

It's not stainless no, I still have to look into some form of rustproofing- probably paint it with POR15 and then waxoil.

Just put it on the bathroom scales and it's 3.5kg- you wouldn't want to drop it on your foot.
It's essentially twice as much metal as was there before as its a complete box rather than a half and I've used thicker metal for strength. The joining brackets I am going to do in a thinner grade.

What are you thinking- too heavy?

[epipete]

Basher I'm loosing my way with this a bit; going back to basics the structure was designed as a continuous metal reinforced oblong section (integral with the tub) with right angle corners which support, on the rear, the B Posts and at the front, the A Posts and support with which to raise the car.

Whilst I understand that your proposal will restore the longditudal integrity it won't be attached in any way to the rear outrigger section or the rusted B Post, so surely there are still stresses to the fibreglass that you haven't addressed.

Whilst I'm no expert and I am impressed with your thinking I'm not sure if this will result in the repair you're seeking. Oh, and yes they are may be a bit heavy!

[basher]

You have lost your way a bit. It is a bit difficult to explain if you haven't stripped the car to see what you are doing.
The A-pillar is a seperate operation.
The insert was never going to go all the way from the back wheelarch all the way to the front wheelarch. It can't unless you remove the seatbelt mounts which recesses into it and numerous other things along that channel. It was only ever meant to repair the rear section, from the seatbelt mount back to the rear arch.

It is approximately 40cm long and sits snugly in the cavity. It will be welded to the good outrigger behind the drivers seat, to the panel with the other seatbelt mount (in the first picture) with another right angle and attached to the the B -post by a right angle bracket through the cavity beside the battery tray.
Maybe knocking up some sort of diagram will help. It will jack up and the weight will be on the outrigger as it always was.

I can't see that less than 3 kilo's is going to blunt the performance, it's no worse than putting hand luggage in the boot. Don't forget that I have hacked out a lot of metal and the jacking point isn't going back in.
However, I hear your concern. Prior to final insertion,I'll save some weight.

[surfboardfiller]

3kg isn't too bad should be fine being welded to the old metal plate, the old section would never have been that strong so I think you are going in the right direction.

Stainless would be a lot heavier and not nice on the weld. May be worth powder coating but of course the weld would comparmise a bit.

I'd carry on, it seems to be solving the problem if anything, it will solve it too well...

[epipete]

Guys, No, don't misunderstand me; as stated I am impressed with what you are attempting and remain hopeful for your success, it was just some clarification of your methods that was at issue which you have further addressed in your comment above.

Pete

[basher]

Feedback is all good, I wouldn't put it out there if I didn't want to hear what people think.In an ideal world I can make a fix that will work for everyone who has the problem.
I think I just need to be a bit less lazy with explanations and get a decent diagram produced and also get the correct part names or numbers for whats involvedand that will help with the understanding.

[Rusty Wishbone]

I need to do some serious poking around to investigate rusty outriggers. Lifting the carpets in the pasenger footwell, there is a small amount of rust, but nothing worrying. However, deeper investigations will give me an opportunity to buy a new gadget - err, I mean multipurpose tool - just type "USB endoscope camera LED" into Ebay, and you will see the kind of thing that I am thinking of.

[Steve A]

USB endoscope camera LED

Yes a very handy tool

[Rob P]

Looks a very handy tool indeed, there do seem to be a lot of options, any specific model that you might be chosing which is better than the others?

[Fredjohn]

Yes, just bought one myself, but yet to try it out for real. So far it only works on 1 of 3 USB sockets, so not sure if I'm doing it right, or if Vista just ain't up to it!!
Several different length leads are available though: I got a 5m lead. But whoever you buy from, they all seem to be made by XCSource, except the £30+ ones.