Door window fails to operate correctly. Diagnosis & Repair

[ailwyn]

Interesting thread Specky... here's a callenge for you...

Driving down the motorway, loud ping and approaching the severn tolls the drivers window will not budge from upright. and somewhat

So after having fun paying for the priviledge to get home, I've found that the window appears to be jammed on the centre runner (gently rocking the window shows the front and rear runners to be free. I have stripped the door card etc and believe all the electrics are ok.

Having read the service manual and a read through this guide (watching the vids is not possible at the mo) it would appear the basic assumption when stripping all this junk out is that the door glass can be raised/lowered as required.

Any tips or things to try to get the glass shifted?

I've removed the lower bolt from the middle runner bracket and unbolted and moved the motor inside the door in a hope that angling the runner might allow the window to slide, but still rock solid. Next thing on my list is to loosen all the runners, but don't want to do that if it could make things worse.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

A.

[Specky]

Jammed in the middle is not as bad as it seems.

Remove the door card...Check

Remove the lower bracket totally..

Use a pair of long nose pliers and remove the C-clip from the butterfly... Pop off the butterfly... Withdraw the slider from the window.... That's what it stuck on..

Sounds like the infamous slider has let go...top wire has detached from the central slider.

I wouldn't play with the front and rear runners..

Call/PM me if you require further assistance..spares etc

TTFN

[tigerdog]

Great troubleshooting flowchart, Mr. Speck! I'm surprised there's no mention of the relays, though. The pesky things have caused repeated trouble on Smaug. Should've replaced them all at once. Goes down but not up, or up but not down? Swap/swop the relays to find the buggered one.

[Specky]

I Thought about it when I wrote it to tell the truth, but then thought of a mirad of other things that could wrong... It was leading to a very complex flow diagram.... Gotta keep it simple as I only have a City in Guilds Pt3 in electrics... So i'M about as bright as a 5w light bulb...lol.

Slight disclaimer at the top... An aide to.......

The flow diagram is still sat on my computer and can be amended at anytime.

TTFN

[m100sandra]

Any tips for the best non perminent sticky stuff to put the door carpet back, i was thinking maybe the double sided tape for carpets

I finally got one of the family members to have a look at the stuck window with the door panel etc removed there didnt seem to be anything visible which was stopping it lifting? (It was the back of the glass which wasnt lifting) my son managed to ease the rear of the glass straight so it was about 4" above the door, pressed the switch and it lifted. let it come back down and same again jammed on its way up again, he tried this a few times with the same results. checked the runners for broken bolts etc or somthing dislodged, but everything seemed to be ok the cure was undoing the bottom two bolts on the rear runner and tightning them up again, and it works hes still a bit confused why
Anyway. touch wood its still working.

Sandra

[dapinky]

I used spray adhesive - can't remember where it was from, but something like screwfix spray.

They do a specific carpet one as well, but that is considered to be a permanent one and i may need to remove it in the future.

[epipete]

You need to be cautious about the adhesive used some of it will soak back into the carpet & leave it unpleasantly stiff, whereas others are great in the winter but lose adhesion whenever he summer arrives, this is also TRUE of velcrose!

A carpet glue such a dapinky suggests is as good as anything else, just leave sufficient space around the edges to allow you to fold it back when you need to access the fixings!

[tweetdriver63]

Any tips for the best non perminent sticky stuff to put the door carpet back, i was thinking maybe the double sided tape for carpets

I finally got one of the family members to have a look at the stuck window with the door panel etc removed there didnt seem to be anything visible which was stopping it lifting? (It was the back of the glass which wasnt lifting) my son managed to ease the rear of the glass straight so it was about 4" above the door, pressed the switch and it lifted. let it come back down and same again jammed on its way up again, he tried this a few times with the same results. checked the runners for broken bolts etc or somthing dislodged, but everything seemed to be ok the cure was undoing the bottom two bolts on the rear runner and tightning them up again, and it works hes still a bit confused why
Anyway. touch wood its still working.

Sandra

When I was in high school I drove a VW Beetle (the classic version) and that was the standard way to repair almost anything that went wrong -- loosen or disassemble and then tighten/re-assemble. It worked every time. Never knew why, and was afraid to look into it for fear it would piss off the Auto God and He would stop letting it work.

[stevieg8571]

Thanks for the excellent write up, it's something I thankfully had a good look at last year, so was forewarned of the task of dealing with window issues, like the one that occurred as I joined my friends at a campsite on Wednesday afternoon
The passenger window went down but begrudgingly would only go 3/4 the way up and even with some assistance from a friend wouldn't travel any further. I tried motoring it down then back up but this simply resulted in a lower window every time
Not wanting to leave it like this for 3 days I took the door card off, speaker out and saw that it was the centre section that was sticking, as both ends are moving freely. I removed the single top bolt and bottom pair of boots from the centre pulley assembly which gave enough access to remove the pieces of the butterfly clip and disconnected the two wires motor wires.
The motor is fine and the wires still intact, so will a new butterfly clip and reassembly be all that's required, and do I have to remove the motor and disassemble further is really my question (after a rather long winded explanation)?
Thanks in advance guys, Steve.

PS. I should hopefully be posting some photos of how to avoid having to move friends cars when leaving a campsite!

[stevieg8571]

I forgot to ask yesterday, what does the butterfly clip actually do and can the windows be used without one fitted?

[epipete]

The butterfly connects the glass to the window drive, (the glass being secured to runners on either side). As you press open/close on the switch so the window rise either goes up or down and hence carries the glass with it. The connection is made via a hole in the glass through which the butterfly slots and is secured. If the butterfly brahes on the lift side of the glass then it'll need replacing to provide lift but if its the clip on the inside of the glass that's snapped then it may be possible to effect a botch to restore functionality. Either way a new clip is the longterm solution to to problem.

[tweetdriver63]

The butterfly connects the glass to the window drive, (the glass being secured to runners on either side). As you press open/close on the switch so the window rise either goes up or down and hence carries the glass with it. The connection is made via a hole in the glass through which the butterfly slots and is secured. If the butterfly brahes on the lift side of the glass then it'll need replacing to provide lift but if its the clip on the inside of the glass that's snapped then it may be possible to effect a botch to restore functionality. Either way a new clip is the longterm solution to to problem.

and is very inexpensive.

[epipete]

and is very inexpensive.

Indeed, £4.22 + Vat + postage from SJ's!

[stevieg8571]

Two new butterflies and a left & right hand pair of guides should be fluttering their way from SJS as I type this.

Am I correct in thinking that after the butterfly portion has been attached, the circular clip on the end of the butterfly should wrap underneath the bottom of the glass then clip back onto the guide, on the outer side of the glass?

[epipete]

That is, indeed, correct!

[stevieg8571]

I'm currently attempting to fit the new guide and butterfly clip but, having been stupid enough to fit the clip onto the guide first, I'm now having trouble getting the guide onto the centre rail.
I've unscrewed the rail at top and bottom to get more access, but I still can't get it to slot into the L shaped cut out on the guide
Any suggestions anyone?

[stevieg8571]

Butterfly clip now removed, but still can't fit the guide.
Do you have to force it on, or remove the centre rail somehow?

[nicowalker1]

Dave just a quick reply to say thanks for the write up, helped no end in what is a pretty fiddly (being polite...) job!
Especially sincemsome plonker got the cables the wrong way around on first attempt.
Result is the window works, for now anyway.

[Aoki Magic Pants]

So the inevitable happened and my drivers side window stopped working, it seemed to go down OK, but then would struggle to go back up, then eventually it just stopped working full stop.

Thanks to Specky's guide (Thank you very much!) and with a bit of help; I managed to strip out the regulator unit and it all looks in good condition - all of the wires, spindles etc. & all the electrics work after testing them. The problem seems to be that the actual motor itself has died.

Can you get the individual motors or does anybody refurbish them? Would it be interchangeable with Pug 405 motor of the same era?

[Aoki Magic Pants]

Fixed!

Got a Pug 405 regulator for £20 from fleabay & swapped out the cable and slider for the original Lotus one.