Roof or window adjustment? And rust treat?

[Russ_16v]

Hey guys, I have water that leaks in at the rear edges of my windows but I am unsure if it's the roof or the windows that need adjusting

The windows fit the seals nicely at the front and also across the top edge, it's the back edges that seem to be the issue









Next question, I have pulled up the carpets and this is what I found
















As you can see the bits inside the sills are fine, it's just some in the corners there - it feels solid, although some metal has rusted and broke off, it doesn't seem bad - what is the best route to keep this at bay?


Any help much appreciated

[epipete]

Russ,

You need to make a thorough inspection of these areas to determine the seriousness, some areas seem to be in the early stages and will not need much work, but others seem a bit more extensive, you need to establish if the jacking points are robust or just rust.


The following thread will help, page I will scare the bejezzus out of you but don't worry, just read for background, I think page two will prove most useful - see what Bob Brown did (his looked worse than yours) at best some remedial rust protection and at worse some fabrication maybe!

Pete

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=17298&hilit=outrigger#p227327

[Peter_W]

Re the windows: 2nd photo: The window position looks OK. The door seal is missing the rounded end that extends to the end of the door (about 1/2 thumb sized). The lower corner of the top, and related seal, look to have retracted back about 1/2" - someone on LEC may know the method of adjusting that forward. The lower corner seal shown in the first photo looks like a DIY addition.

[Russ_16v]

hi mate,

don't worry, the underside, inner and outer sills are solid - Ben did a huge amount of work on the underside and it shows - it is literally just those corners that have the rust on them, and I have got quite rough with them and they are also solid

[Russ_16v]

Re the windows: 2nd photo: The window position looks OK. The door seal is missing the rounded end that extends to the end of the door (about 1/2 thumb sized). The lower corner of the top, and related seal, look to have retracted back about 1/2" - someone on LEC may know the method of adjusting that forward. The lower corner seal shown in the first photo looks like a DIY addition.

Thanks mate, so I have something missing then? The added bit is a bit of felt - I assume the window may have rubbed at some point

[epipete]

hi mate,

don't worry, the underside, inner and outer sills are solid - Ben did a huge amount of work on the underside and it shows - it is literally just those corners that have the rust on them, and I have got quite rough with them and they are also solid

Good! But bare in mind that the floor and Cills are plastic (so won't rust) but are bonded to a steel frame (the outrigger) which will, and in so doing will diminish the structual integrity so treat the rust that you can see with Dinitrol or such like and I'd swap out all that nasty sponge like foam for nice new closed cell foam (off Ebay)

[dapinky]

...... and I'd swap out all that nasty sponge like foam for nice new closed cell foam (off Ebay)

Pete,

what thickness of foam did you use? I was looking at this the other day, and *thought* that 5mm would be better than 3mm or 10mm - but is it enough, too much, or nowhere near???

How 'mouldable' is it, or does it sit rigid? Can it be bent with a hot air paint gun??

(not really a thread hi-jack as sort of relevant to the rusting sill bracing )

[epipete]

Dave,

After my heater matrix gave out everthing was soaked (though it may have been already) so I bought a roll of 12mm thickness, used it flat, it's quite rigid, under the carpets using the original as a template and again along the inner Cills. Didn't try to bend it or heat it as it wasn't necessary to replicate what was already there.

Being closed cell it stays dry and allows any water to seep away or evaporate naturally.

Bought it on eBay quite cheaply and cuts with a very sharp knife!

Pete

Russ, being local, for interest, I use Tony at Malmesbury Specialist Motors for mechanics and MOT (they are ex Lotus) and Philips Bodyshop at Yatton Keynell for bodywork.

[Peter_W]

...Thanks mate, so I have something missing then?...

It appears so from the photo. It's the end of the door seal - after it runs up the rear of the door to seal along the b pillar, it continues over the top rear corner of the door and fills the ~1 inch gap from where the window seal ends.

[Russ_16v]

Ah right - does anyone have a picture of the missing bit? So i know what I am looking for

I shall treat that this week then - thanks for the info guys, what is the better foam called on ebay? Would like to get the right stuff if i can

[epipete]

This is the type of stuff I used:

sound proofing heat insulation closed cell foam sheets 2mtr x 500mm x 12mm

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... ID=EBAY-GB

[Russ_16v]

Smashing, thanks mate, will get some on order

Any pictures of the roof seals anyone?

[Peter_W]

Due to a recent move most of my stuff is boxed up so I won't be finding my digital camera anytime soon, so here are some low res pics from my phone:

End of open door showing the door seal forming a triangular shape and continuing over the top of door meeting the window seal:


The hood storage cover is open to show the end of the hood storage cover seal:


Top and window up showing partially visable sections of the two seals shown above.

[Russ_16v]

Brilliant thanks mate! So i am missing those bits by the looks of it - is there anywhere than still makes them, or am i going to have to cobble something up myself?

[Peter_W]

Here are two recent threads with information and good pics:

forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22326&p=282548&hilit=sikaflex#p281553

forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=22393

[Russ_16v]

Thank you for all the replys guys, very informative!

Excuse my ignorence/stupidity/noobie question, but are the outriggers that box section with the big round holes in? I am just working out how to repair, by the looks of the other thread, a good clean up/cut out the rust and weld a new piece in over that bit, then look at bonding it along the bottom edge?


Also I have found another bit of rust - I am hoping this is the last bit lol, as I have mentioned before Ben took very good care of the car, and looking underneath there is no rust to be found and the sills are very solid, so hoping this will be the last bit I find - it is between the battery tray and the side of the car, lower down than the battery itself, I have taken a picture of it, hoping it's nothing too bad/structural - for refence the picture is taken from the o/s of the car, so the alarm siren there is next to the battery

And yes that is a golf ball





I see in the thread linked above he also has had rust issues in the same place, but mine looks to be slightly different - can anyone give me an idea on how to fix both sections of rust? I think doing what I have written above will hopefully be right for the inner sill bits, but if anyone could give me pointers on the bit by the battery i'd be very happy!

[epipete]

Ok, firstly, what is that golf ball doing there?

Yes, the out riggers are those metal frames, with the large holes in. There are diagrams available but in simple terms the car has a backbone chassis which extends down the centre of the car which, forgive the crudeness, has extensions to which the (suspension and) tub are connected. The 'tub' is the large resin/plastic/fibreglass section which forms the cockpit and extends from the front Bulkhead, down both Cills to the rear Bulkhead the inside of this 'tub' is reinforced by the metal frame that you've described which whilst intrinsic to the tub is affixed to it by Sikaflex. As you can imagine once the tub straddles the Chassis in the centre and is bolted down at the sides (your seat bolts are some such fixings for eg) there is considerable rigidity to the structure.

The problem areas are in the four corners of the tub, mainly due to the ingress of water, in bad cases this can extend to the seatbelt fixing points!

The good news is that, as can be seen on various threads, there is a documented solution to front outrigger problem. The rears are not so well reported, somebody on here has repaired theirs via the rear wheel arches but personally I think it is probably possible to effect a similar process to that used on the front but exposure of the metalwork/rust may require more ingenuity. It is also necessary to note that the fuel tank is behind the NS rear outrigger.

That picture is not pretty but it is difficult to judge the extent of the problem certainly as a minimum some cleaning of the existing rust and then some rust stabiliser needs to be applied whilst you decide how extensive the problem is and how you will tackle it. You might also like to look at the other side though the view is badly obscured by the fuel tank.

Hope this helps

Pete

[Russ_16v]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for that, that did make a lot of sense


I assume the golf ball is there probably from someone carrying golf clubs where the roof folds down and a ball has rolled out? It's all I can think of


I am happy with the rust in the front - it has not progressed very far, and I can weld in a small section to cover where it has rusted - I assume (Again forgive my lack of knowledge!) that it is easy to re-seal a new section in?


The section by the battery doesn't look 'too bad' - it has obviously gone through, but all 4 sides around the rested bit seem very solid - I have not had time to clear all the rust away, but it just seems to be that flat section has rusted through with no other rust progressing.

Thing is, does that flat section there missing (the rusted bit) cause any issue with the structure? I can only think of cutting another flat section the same size, slotting it on top and welding it in?

Cheers again for any help

[basher]

The reason that it hasn't rusted all around the rusty square and its solid is because its fibreglass.
It is the top edge of your outrigger and it has corroded.
The best thing you can do is get into the outrigger channel behind the drivers seat through one of the big holes ( for reinforcing not rust !) and put a digital camera in and take a picture from inside to see how bad it is.
Also try jacking it up at the back on the jacking point. If it groans or your jack disappears this is indicative of a problem.

Just realised I was looking at the picture the wrong way up, the siren threw me. The bit under the golf ball isn't metal, so no worries on that.

[Russ_16v]

The reason that it hasn't rusted all around the rusty square and its solid is because its fibreglass.
The bit under the golf ball is also metal. It is the top edge of your outrigger and it has corroded.
The best thing you can do is get into the outrigger channel behind the drivers seat through one of the big holes ( for reinforcing not rust !) and put a digital camera in and take a picture from inside to see how bad it is.
Also try jacking it up at the back on the jacking point. If it groans or your jack disappears this is indicative of a problem.

I had it jacked up at the weekend from the back - no issues or funny noises so here's hoping!

Thanks mate, I am planning on getting the seats out in a few months (As I am getting the interior retrimmed) so will have a good check then - am I right in guessing that the bit that's rusting is the top of the tube and it runs vertically down? So if I pull the carpet off from behind the seat I should see a hole that I am able to see inside?

Thanks again