Gearbox and clutch removal/maintenance tips

Drivetrain problems

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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby Alan Head » Thu 16.01.2014, 18:10

texas2201 wrote:Thanks Alan - are you in Hamilton in Scotland? If so I went to School there :-)

Where are Voights? just googled it and they are in Liverpool and how much did it cost to have the gearbox rebuilt?

Martin



Yep, I stay in Hamilton, about 10 miles South of Glasgow. I grew up in East Kilbride which is about 5 miles away.

Voigts are in Wallasey, Wirral, Merseyside.

I supplied all of the parts which cost about £200 + vat. I bought all parts from Lotus.

The labour to rebuild the gearbox was also about £200 + vat.


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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby texas2201 » Thu 16.01.2014, 18:28

Cheers Alan

I am originally from Rutherglen but all my family now live in EK. I now live in Hampstead Norreys a small village north of Newbury in Berkshire.

Thanks for the info on Voights and the prices

Martin
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby ovi » Wed 22.01.2014, 23:41

Excellent post Alan! :D

And always replace the clutch with pressure plate and release bearing whilst the gearbox is removed ?
Especially since the pressure fingers of the pressure group probably already have lost some of their strength after all these years! :wink:
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Thu 24.04.2014, 16:19

So... I decided to take the plunge and with the help of this excellent topic to remove and / or swap the gearbox and change the clutch!
I ordered a Sachs clutch kit from Rockauto and am in the process of removing all the bits and pieces.

This is my firtst time that i work om the transmission and all involved parts, so please, bear with me!
In return i will try to make some nice pictures of the process.

Wish me luck, so I can make it to Ypres Lotusday!
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby ovi » Sat 26.04.2014, 19:15

Good luck mate!
Monday and Tuesday we sit on our boat in the Netherlands, if you need any help just send me a message and I'll be there to rescue you! :smt051
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sat 26.04.2014, 21:08

Thanks old chap!

But i take it slowly, I don't know if i have removed the box + clutch by then! :shock:
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Thu 01.05.2014, 19:51

Okay,

The Clutch is in and waiting patiently in my garage...
I removed all the bits and bobs on the shiny side first. This was easy as i have done plenty of work on this side :twisted:

The car is up in the air on my scissors bridge and supported on jack stands, just to have a 2nd safety precaution.
I removed both wheels and drained the transmission oil from the box (Why?) Also the Calipers and brake disks are off and tied out off the way.
The prongeron is ready to remove (front bolts and damper removed), so if i am correct: Next stop is removing the drive shafts.

I've read the text above, but do not fully understand (yet) Do you still have some pictures of this part of the procedure?
The top joint speaks for itself, but removing the nut? Is this the nut with a flat hammered part to prevent it from turning? How do i remove that please?
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sat 03.05.2014, 11:12

Is Anyone active on LEC to help me remove the driveshaft nut and the prongereon?
The nut is one big puzzle for me, and the nuts from the rear prongeron mounting points are rotating together with the bolts but,,, Where are my nuts! :-D :lol:
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby dapinky » Sat 03.05.2014, 12:00

Henk-Jan

I did mine recently and had no big problems....

...I'm not sure how much I put on the forum, and how much I put into PM's with other members who were having similar issues, but I'll try and state what I did, and how I did it for you.....

As far as the big hub nut goes, it is simply a case of bending the peened bit out of the driveshaft using a chisel and undoing the nut (it's quite tight, but once it is cracked off it should undo with your fingers. I did it by putting a bolt through one of the wheel stud holes on the hub, protruding through the back of the hub and into the area with the blue arrow - as you turn the hub nut, the bolt will catch on the upright and hold it in place to allow the big nut to undo.

front suspension.jpg


You are not meant to reuse the nuts, but they are not elan specific (which is good because Lotus charge a lot for them) and are common to millions of other cars - I bought some for an elise for a couple of quid and they are identical. (and the same as a Citroen/Peugeot).

The Prongeron should be quite easy - the rear inner bolts are captive (into the chassis), the rear outer bolts go through the raft and the rest have nuts on them.

Here are a couple of messages I sent to Jamie (Jeemy) and Blair (Elanlover) to help them with theirs. The only main difference we encountered was with the Federal car which has an extra bracket on the Prongeron, so it shouldn't be an issue for you.....

Jamie,

You are starting from a slightly different place to me - I had already taken the driveshaft apart at the joint which gets in the way of the front lower raft bolt, so there was a bit more wriggle room.

My decision was to remove the whole thing as it was the bushes which were my main 'job' on the raft.

To get the front bolt out it was a simple case of removing the steel band on the thick end of the driveshaft gaiter and slipping the boot off the joint (oil/grease will come out and go everywhere - i'm not sure if it's oily grease or greasy oil that Lotus used - but 'standard' CV grease can be used on reassembly.

The 'unavailable' bushes for the raft can be done using the bushes designated for the top raft mounting - but they need to be shortened.

Have a look at my posts hereand herefor details of how I did mine, and where i got the new boots/hub nuts from.

I still think that if all else fails, then brute force is the only way forward. I can't see plusgas etc helping too much on this job as there is a chemical 'seal' with the threadlock compound.

If it is access to the altenator that you are after, and you decide to take the driveshaft apart, then dropping the prongeron off isn't much more work as most of the bolts will already be out - then you can get to the altenator and will have more room to get to the back of the 3 bolts which are being a bugger.

Personally, I would definately get the raft off (having gone this far) and at least have a good look at the rubber bushes - it is those 3 (each side) bits of rubber which dictate the whole handling characteristics of the Elan and WILL exhibit signs of cracking/wear.

Having done a few now, I wouldn't bother with the top mounting bush (between the plates and into the chassis) as I have never seen one that is damaged - unless your's is the exception!

If all else fails, and you end up damaging your rafts, I have a pair here which came of Nick Walkers' car - they still have knackered bushes fitted, and one of the 6 bolts is seized into the top of the raft (can't remember which side of the car is the seized one). You are welcome to them - at least you'll only have to worry about retrieving your old plates and drilling one stud out. (and fitting new bushes!)


Hi Blair,

The prongeron isn't actually that heavy, and it's shape is such that the balance point is pretty central on the centre of the cross.

Having put it in and out a few times now, i have found that the best way is to undo the 3 small bolts holding it to the radiator frame, and remove them. Then undo the gearbox shock absorber (otherwise it may get forgotten!).

Two of the holding bolts (at the front of the raft) are positioned from the top, so the prongeron is held by a nut at that point, not a bolt - undo those nuts, and then put them back onto the bolts by hand - just a couple of turns.

Then undo the 2 remaining bolts at the front of the raft each side (nuts are on the top and need holding with a spanner).

Finally undo the 2 captive bolts which are at the rear of the raft/prongeron - one goes through the raft, the other (inner) bolt just holds the prongeron to the chasis.

At this point the prongeron will just be held up by the 2 loosely replaced nuts.

You can hold the prongeron up with one hand quite easily and remove the 2 loose nuts from the bolts, and then lower the prongeron away.

To replace it, just hold it up in place, put the 2 nuts on loosely, and reverse the procedure.

As I said, it isn't actually that heavy, but i wouldn't want to be holding it one-handed for a week!


If you can't make sence of my (not always eloquent) ramblings, feel free to ask more, and I'll try and help - I am aware that one member had an issue with a captive bolt needing to be drilled out of the chassis, but other than that, it should be a straightforward procedure. (it just needs you to know where all the bolts are, and which way they go).
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sat 03.05.2014, 18:21

Thank you Dave!

I just read your email too late, but the prongeron came off anyway when i found out that there are no nuts where i expected them.
I now have a clue what to do with the hub nuts, so I'll give it another go tonight.

When the nuts are off, i need to push the shafts out of the wheel hubs, right?
But then... how to get the shafts out of the box?
Do i need to get the gaiters, at the gearbox side of the shafts, off and how do i Do that?

This is where i Am right now:Image

Image
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Sat 03.05.2014, 18:49

HJ:

The shafts are held into the output splines at the gearbox via internal ROUND SHOULDER snap rings so a sharp hit of the shaft right at the spline pushing the shaft out of the hole is the most common way. They can be stubborn. Some people use a pry bar, but I find that puts pressure on the snap ring before it can collapse (the round outside acts like a ramp and the ring will collapse into the ID of the groove). It might be a good idea to google something like removing a fwd shaft from the gearbox or something similar to see pictures and descriptions of processes or methods. The snap ring on the RH shaft which goes into the center shaft assembly has a square shaped snap ring but it will come apart the same way or you could remove the drive shaft with the center shaft together.

A quick search on google found this: http://autoforums.carjunky.com/Automoti ... t._P95489/

Basically, you really want to try to get the shaft to come out evenly and squarely. A slide hammer with a large fork like the one pictured is OK.
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sat 03.05.2014, 19:04

thanks, i thingk that was very helpful!
Actually... I have a spare box so i can see how the parts 'snap' together.

I'll be gone in a minute or so to see if it works how i thing it works :smt006
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby ovi » Sat 03.05.2014, 19:12

Why did not you emailed me? :roll:
I see what you did wrong but my english is not so good.
Email me than I can explain! :wink:
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sat 03.05.2014, 21:17

Thanks Ivo, but they are off without a problem ;-) My challenge was: Are these the nuts that i have to undo?

So driveshafts are out of the way, and i supported the bell house from above, hanging on my crane. Plan is to place the engine on a jack and as an extra precaution hang it on the crane as well (but fixed whilst the box can be lowered). Then remove the rear engine support and lower (tilt) the block a little so i have more room to work with (Ivo's top tip)

Does that sound like a good plan? :o
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby Enright » Sun 04.05.2014, 08:29

Sounds good to me. Always worth extra support to begin with. You can remove jacks and things if you find you don't need them, but if something starts to move/fall as you undo it then you don't want to be frantically reaching for something extra to try to stop it before it comes crashing down.
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sun 04.05.2014, 08:44

We'll see in an hour or so :shock:
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sun 04.05.2014, 12:21

Thanks for all the help & advice guys. The gearbox is off now.
Next is the clutch, but that looks easy enough. I hope i see damage here, that would mean that my gearbox is not Ruined :evil:

I allready noticed that the center of each finger looks worn. Is this usual for a used clutch?
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sun 04.05.2014, 16:30

I just finished in removing the lot and examening the old worn clutch.
I will fill this topic later on with pictures, as usual (but will focus on the missing stuff for me)

I noticed that the spring that retracts the clutch bearing was worn so i replaced that. It allready feels better.
I noticed that where the bearing touches the fingers, the fingers are worn! Approx. 0.5 - 0.9 mm is worn out, in the shape of the inner raceway of the bearing. Is this normally to be expected on a worn clutch? Or does this show a bad bearing and perhaps the cause of my gearbox problems? The surface of the clutch material itself was nicely evenly worn with almost no friction material left. THAT looks normal to me...

For now i replaced the bearing with the new one that came with the clutch kit. I lubricated it's sliding path with the supplied grease (pink) Well... I hope it is not sealant or else i am buggered :oops: Also i lubricated the part where the clutch fork touches the clutch bearing housing. Everything woorks super smooth now.

I cleaned the inside of the bell housing with brake cleaner. It looks like new now.
I will clean the outside as well ;-)

Questions:
1. Are my clutch problems related to the worn fingers? (heavy shifting with running engine in all gears when hot)
2. When mounting the bell housing, do i need to use sealant or not?
3. I want to replace the sump pan as well. Can is use instant RTV gasket to seal that up again, or do i need a new gasket for that?


Well, that's it for now.
Time to process the pictures now! 8)
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby Fredjohn » Sun 04.05.2014, 16:59

HJ2 wrote:Questions:
1. Are my clutch problems related to the worn fingers? (heavy shifting with running engine in all gears when hot)
2. When mounting the bell housing, do i need to use sealant or not?
3. I want to replace the sump pan as well. Can is use instant RTV gasket to seal that up again, or do i need a new gasket for that?


Well, that's it for now.
Time to process the pictures now! 8)



Henk

Good work so far: far more productive than my Sunday today! Too busy in the garden, but at least I went to the garden centre in the Elan.
Answers:
1) Probably, as you would be getting clutch drag on the two faces.
2) No need to use sealant on bell housing: there's no fluids to seal in or out!
3) There is no gasket between the sump pan and block: just clean off the old sealant thoroughly from all surfaces and use a suitable modern sealant.

Sorry to hear though that you are still in winter in Holland: we have moved into a beautiful sunny spring/summer weekend here in UK!!! :D :D
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Re: Planning some gearbox maintenance over winter.

Postby HJ2 » Sun 04.05.2014, 17:28

Uhmmm. Winter?

Nope, that's in Belgium, not in the Netherlands :lol:
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