Puff!!! loads of vapor and yellow engine light

[epipete]

A couple of thoughts, it is possible/probable that retail stock is old new stock, by which I mean it has, as likely as not, sat on a shelf somewhere for the last 20 odd years!

Draining and flushing as a process is : viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22662&p=289735&hilit=Samco#p285603

Yes, IMHO it is worth buying the Samco Coolant set, all your pipes are probably original which makes them 20 odd years old so it cuts a risk, that said being aged doesn't mean they are about to fail, though when I changed mine I found several of them had become very brittle! And, again, No, it is not difficult to change them all are accessible from above excepting the Radiator hoses IIRC. Search for Amber Performance on here they offer a discount, again, IIRC. There is debate about using Samco Clips see here:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22662&p=289735&hilit=Samco#p285603

How far away is work You should be ok, take some water and watch the gauge

This is what I have laying about:

Not sure if it is what you need, over to you Dave!

[GeoffSmith]

Amber Performance give LEC a 20% discount.

[dapinky]

This is what I have laying about:

Not sure if it is what you need, over to you Dave!

Pete, as you have a car nearer to you than I have, you'd need to see if it looks right compared to what you have (It certainly doesn't look like a 'proper' part, but that doesn't mean it won't/didn't fit/work)

[Tuga2112]

Amber Performance give LEC a 20% discount.

that post is 6 years old tho.
if i decide to make the investment.
I will definatly contact the member who posted that thread.
This is one of those decisions that i cannot take lightly. theres several factors to take into account.
first is my financial situation,
second is the overal condition of the car, because im not familiar with mechanics i cannot be a good judge of the car.
third is the fact that replacing the whole system is a job that is out of my confort zone (diy wise)
then theres always the positive side of the coin. after the job done i can rest assured the collant pipes are unlikely to give any trouble for a long time
collalnt pipes on yellow/green/blue would look rather sporty lol

[Tuga2112]

Dave,

Have you had a chanse to look see if you got the hose ?
i had a lookk online and the only hose that may be the one you refer in SJ sportscars is the only one without a picture (tipical)
I have sent an email to 3 different lotus dealers that do service asking about the part number you gave me.
the samco kit is easy to find online on sale but the price tag isnt very appealing (not to mention the fact i dont feel very confident in my skill to undertake such job) but the idea of getting it is not out of consideration (if you know what i mean).

[GeoffSmith]

I know it's 6 years old but I'm sure James / Amber honoured it just recently.

[Tuga2112]

I know it's 6 years old but I'm sure James / Amber honoured it just recently.

that makes the idea of getting the whole set more tempting.

[dapinky]

Hi,

the bad news is that I forgot

The better news is that I've just been to look

And the good news is that I have one

It is still attached to the other rubber/metal pipes, but I've undone the clamps to make sure that it doesn't appear to be damaged.

IMG_20141017_183800.jpg

If you can just confirm that it looks like your bit, I'll send whatever bits you need.

I believe that your damaged bit is as per the red oval on the left..... but the pink circle indicates a metal joining pipe to the other rubber pipe (which is where the 2 part numbers come into the game - Lotus seem to list the 2 rubber bits and the metal pipe as for the N/A (but all SEs I've seen have got them), and list it all as one rubber piece for the SE????

If you can tell me if you just need the small (well, about a foot long!) 'Y' piece, or any of the other bits as well, then PM your address and I'll get it in the post to you.

[Tuga2112]

Hi,

the bad news is that I forgot

The better news is that I've just been to look

And the good news is that I have one

It is still attached to the other rubber/metal pipes, but I've undone the clamps to make sure that it doesn't appear to be damaged.

IMG_20141017_183800.jpg

If you can just confirm that it looks like your bit, I'll send whatever bits you need.

I believe that your damaged bit is as per the red oval on the left..... but the pink circle indicates a metal joining pipe to the other rubber pipe (which is where the 2 part numbers come into the game - Lotus seem to list the 2 rubber bits and the metal pipe as for the N/A (but all SEs I've seen have got them), and list it all as one rubber piece for the SE????

If you can tell me if you just need the small (well, about a foot long!) 'Y' piece, or any of the other bits as well, then PM your address and I'll get it in the post to you.

i will compare tomorow morning the piece with your picture on the mobile on the side and let you know by the end of the day.

from the picture i have posted before and my recollection it looks like the T junction is more on a h (ish) shape the 2 tubes coming from one side are nearly parallel
with the other side at an angle.

ill let you know tomorow

[epipete]

from the picture i have posted before and my recollection it looks like the T junction is more on a h (ish) shape the 2 tubes coming from one side are nearly parallel
with the other side at an angle.

That sounds like my piece pictured above Check it out. I can't compare to my car now because the new Samco dispenses with this piece, several other hoses and a couple of metal pipes!

[Tuga2112]

from the picture i have posted before and my recollection it looks like the T junction is more on a h (ish) shape the 2 tubes coming from one side are nearly parallel
with the other side at an angle.

That sounds like my piece pictured above Check it out. I can't compare to my car now because the new Samco dispenses with this piece, several other hoses and a couple of metal pipes!

Hi epipete.

the pipe you pictured looks like 3 pipes with a t "splitter" in the middle, the one i see leaking doesnt have any "splitter" joining the hoses, thats why i dont think its the same

heres another picture that im hoping helps, and another with the contorn of the shape of the hose as you wont be able to see it in pics



i dont mean to sound rude but i dont think none of the hoses you guys have posted pictures of is the same shape as the #TB1829 in Dave's first picture Im pretty sure the #TB1829 is the one i need, it does look extremely closely to the one that leaks.

assuming you guys dont have any other candidates to the role of #TB1829 i am probably going to order the one refered previously from SJ sportscars.
there's always the possibility of digging out the details of my credit card and buy the samco set... (british racing green hoses would look interesting lol)

[Tuga2112]

Had a look for the fans.

now. im no eletrics expert. after fredjonh and martin help i now know how to bypass the thermostat to trigger the fans.
i have used a multimeter over 3 different places here's the findings i got. followed by my controversial ideas of whats going on

(for reference, then fans are not stuck )

checked the connector behind the light pod that leads to the fans.
1-out of the 4 pins. only one was live. the other 3 didnt return any voltage. the one live returned 0.12 in the 20 setting. (whatever that means)

2-at the bottom of the radiator there are 2 connectors, 1 for each fan. both these returned values around 0.02 0.03

3-then i plugged the multimeter in the fans end. when i manually spin the fans the voltage did change for both.

4-then i found a wire coming from the upper area of the radiator that i believe is a earth one. (basically a wire with a O ring at the end) this one was lose.
I plugged the multimeter in the connectors at the bottom and then touched the "earth" wire. the voltage values drastically changed to higher values.
then tried with the earth wire in the radiator and the voltages returned were also higher but more stable than holding it with my hand.

5-I tried to connect a spare battery i have directly to each of the fans without any luck making them move

6 - plugged everything back together with the thermostat bypass and while touching the lose earth wire, fans did not spin

My toughts per stage.
1 - i was expecting 2 to be live (one for each of the fans. but as described in 2 i am assuming this is normal
2 - very low values i though. maybe not enough power is going to the fans therefor they dont spin ? at this stage i was thinking the wires are corroded
3 - because the multimeter returned voltage i think the motor works
4 - makes me think the problem in 2 is just earth connection missing
5 - fan motors are broken ? this is contradictory data based on 3 (also i assumed i did not make a good connection to the battery.
6 - this "should" solve the problem that i cannot make a good connection betwen the fans and the spare battery properly. pointing back that the fan motors are broken

after thoughs.
strange both fans being broken. a relative low change of happening (1 out of 4)
however.. would the problem ever be noticed if a single fan was broken ? if not then its possible the first fan has been broken for a long time and the second broke recently.

Questions
how can i be 100% sure the fans are broken ?
where am i supposed to plug that "earth" wire ?

[dapinky]

I'm no expert on the fans, so I'll leave that to others to comment on.....

...but for the pipes, it is more a case of ensuring that each end of everything connects to the right bits, with a suitable diameter pipe to enable the correct flow....

... the exact shape of the hose doesn't matter too much, and the picture that Pete put up is probably a 'home made' repair piece to replace the OE bit which had failed - but it obviously did the job!

When a leak occurs, the important thing is to replace the broken bit so that all pipes are again connected - the shape of what you fit will undoubtably depend on what bits you have to hand at the time.

A Lotus garage will (perhaps) fit an original part, whilst an AA man at the roadside will fit something to get you on your way, and an owner will fit whatever he can find in the garage pile of spares!

That's why I included the whole pipe system in the photo, so you can establish that it is the right bit to replace the broken bit (as long as it joins the radiator hose to the other bits, then it is the "right" bit).

The Samco hoses are NOT direct copies of the Lotus parts, as they made some pipes with a different profile (shape) to eliminate the metal pipework where appropriate, but they fit well, and are easy to get to and replace (but they don't necessarily look like the Lotus ones).

Ideally, you need to see if the picture I posted is like your car (it won't be like mine, 'cos I have Samcos), and I don't have mine here anyway to check.

If you want them (or parts of them) then you're welcome, but if you are in any doubt, then the "best" thing to do is get a complete set of Samcos so you know that you'll have what you need.

[epipete]

Here is a bit of background reading which might shed some light on fans viewtopic.php?f=37&t=23046&p=290437&hilit=Samco#p290437

Given the price quoted by SJS for the hose I would think that that might be the best route although Dave's 'bit' is the real deal I think.

Pete

Edit: Doh, Dave beat me again!

[muley]

Leaving aside the hoses..


5-I tried to connect a spare battery i have directly to each of the fans without any luck making them move

If you hotwired the fans and they didn't spin then.. ..they are broken.


Jim

[Tuga2112]

Leaving aside the hoses..


5-I tried to connect a spare battery i have directly to each of the fans without any luck making them move

If you hotwired the fans and they didn't spin then.. ..they are broken.

Jim

I think so. but i never hotwired anything in my life so i dont even know if im doing it right,

either way as an updte,
i bought the hose from SJS relying in dave's knowledge. (hope your right dave, fingers crossed)

also bought one of these as it says its compatible with the elan. if it works and i manage to fit it in. ill then buy a second one.

from the epipete's post it lead me to thisthis post. which will be helpfull in the event after the radiator is in i find out the thermostat doesnt work thanks pete.

fingers crossed by the end of next week i will be able to sit in traffic without getting a nervous breakdown

[muley]

Good move. You might find you have to hacksaw off some of the lugs from the plastic shroud on that fan.

Jim

[epipete]

Good move. You might find you have to hacksaw off some of the lugs from the plastic shroud on that fan.

Jim

Yeah, that's the common find, but do a test fit in the car (making sure the wire tails are orientated correctly) then you can see which lug(s) need to come off, they'll slice off with a hot knife, and the diameter of the fan shroud along with the remaining lugs enable it to be installed quite safely.

Pete

[Fredjohn]

Joe, it may be worth tracing the electrics from the fuses towards the fans, rather than looking at fan end.

See wiring diagram in WikiLEC link below:

http://wikilec.9600.org/images/e/e0/MJ2 ... g_Fans.gif

Relay is in middle of diagram, and the fuses are labelled 15A, B3 and B4. Give it a good study.

Remove the 2 fuses as you did before (and double check they are OK!), short out fans as shown by Martin (you will need to do this more permanently than just touching it), and with ignition switched on check for power at the 4 fuse slots where the removed fuses fit. 2 slots should read 0 volts, 2 should read 12 volts (or thereabouts, might be 10+). If this is the case you know the relay is actually working. If not (ie 0 volts at all 4) then the relay is faulty, or contacts are dirty. Remove, clean contacts replace and try again. If 12 volts, good, if not replace relay.

Once you have 12 volts at the fuse slots, replace the fuses then move along the wires BG 24D and BG 24E to the last connectors by the fans (BG= black green). Check volts here again on both the BG wires (keep car electrics on etc as above to do this): you should have 10-12 volts here if all OK. Make sure your multi-meter is well earthed. If 0 volts, fault lies between fuses and this point: in which case only God and a good car electrician know how to solve this! If 12 volts, good.

You now need to look at the earth connections onto the metal radiator mounting frame. Remove and clean these connections anyway, then check them with a continuity test with the multi-meter (one wire on known working earth, the other on black wire at connector). Providing this test is OK, you can now be sure that you have power and an earth for the fans. Reconnect and fans should work. If not, fans are knackered! Remove and replace. Recheck fans once removed with a separate power supply just to be sure.

Hope this is clear, and I've not missed anything. Electricians please add/amend as applicable. The most difficult bit is if there is a fault between the fuse and the final connector. However, I personally think this is unlikely as both BG wires or the connectors would have to be broken. The issue, if not the fans, is more likely to be the relay or bad earths. We do know the relay was clicking when we tested it, but we don't know for sure that an electrical contact was being made.

Best of luck Joe.

John

[Tuga2112]

Thanks john,

I'll check for the relays and fuses tomorow after work (while theres light)
ill also check the connector behind the light pod with the multimeter earthed instead of connecting the multimeter earth to the earth of the connector.

I know for sure one of the earth connectors (are you sure there's more than one?) at the radiator is not "bolted"/screwed in. (ill try to take a picture of that tomorow to put here.)

I'm not sure i fully understand the continuity test, my knowledge was that the continuity test would be with the multimeter red node in one end of the wire and the black node in the opposite end of the wire. Ill run this test last if i have enough daylight left as im not sure of how it works.

When i hotwired the spare battery to the fans, assuming i have done it correctly (one wire from battery + to one side of the connector to the fan and the other wire from battery- to the other connector) these would always spin (in oposite direction if i connected the wires the wrong way around) correct ?

Im gonna run all the tests i have done previously tomorow again just in case. ill probably also take video of it so it can be as accurate as possible.

Ill get an update tomorow with as much info as i can gather.
let me know if there is any more checks i can do.

and once again. thanks for the help guys.