Project 'Sh4rk'

[Costas]

[quote author=Brian_MDB link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=180#194 date=02/16/05 at 21:11:02]Do the new pistons lower the compresion ratio so you can run higher boost?[/quote]<br>Of course we could do that, but thats not what we want to. The Pistons selected to replace the stock ones are of far better quality so as to secure as much as possible reliability at 1.2bar. We could go for 1.5Bar with those pistons (in combination with all the rest of the engine mods that take place) but the hp are allready too many to handle, at least for my driving abilities.<br><br>The engine is gonna run at 0.8-0.9bar but when I want it to be more mucho it will run at 1.2bar in combination with a little NOS. That is the point i want to secure reliability (if that can be said). My aim is not more hp or more torgue or more operating Boost Pressure. I may run a dynorun when all new engine mods are done at maximum setups (Rpm, Boost, NOS Shot) just to know Sh4ks pottentials but will not use it on my daily drive like that. <br><br>So to answer Neil's question here, I shall do my best to ensure the longer durability possible, but cant say how long. One year (cross my fingers) will be my stonemile before I make a thorough Engine "guts" check up. Also the long trip to Dony and back will be a tester too (4500km-2800miles drive)

[Game-on]

Costas,<br><br>My guys here have gone down the same route, which you have.<br>They have added new stock pistons, which have been, lightened and balanced along with the crank (re-ground lightened and balanced) this is also done with the flywheel and clutch (so he tells me ??) <br>By upping the bore 1mm this should not increase the compressions too much, I have had over sized rings of 0.5mm.<br>My guy here is building my engine to handle 250Bhp all the time.<br>I’m wetting my pants waiting to get mine back…. I’m also glued to the screen reading yours!!<br><br>My question is…. Are you having everything lightened and balanced ??<br>Steve told me that when you have a stock engine you lose a small amount of power with the different weight of all the components.<br>Once balanced the engine is in harmony as every component weight the same, thus less power lose thorough kinetic energy (wow, I learning)<br>Is this the road you now going down ?<br><br>I’m also wondering why you are having the pistons fitted now?<br>Why not at the beginning?<br><br>I cant wait to see you at Donny, I’ll buy you a beer (if your not driving !!)<br><br>Well done <br><br>Game-on<br>

[Costas]

[quote author=Game-on link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#198 date=02/17/05 at 01:48:18]<br>1. My question is…. Are you having everything lightened and balanced ??<br>2. I’m also wondering why you are having the pistons fitted now?<br>Why not at the beginning?<br>3. I cant wait to see you at Donny, I’ll buy you a beer (if your not driving !!)[/quote]<br><br>1. Yes, thats what I am doing now. Will post details and pictures on time. <br><br>2. Stupid of me, I know, but when I saw the perfomance at 1.2bar it really scared the s...t outta me and decided to do the mods now, better late than never.<br><br>3. My pleasure, I dont think I am gonna drive at all at Dony (2800miles trip are enough!). Driving will be done by all those who want to test drive the Sh4rk.<br>

[Sy V]

Remember it's a left hooker boys!<br>I've driven both (various cars) and it's a piece of cake once you're used to it.<br><br>Costas<br><br>I must question your sanity here.  ;)<br><br>

[Game-on]

Costas<br><br>It is a wise thing what you are doing…. Even though I am the most back-to-front person in the whole of LEC, I done the same thing, fitted a more power full turbo and blew the big end bearings (one of the things why mine went wrong)<br>When I had my car back for a little while before it went BANG, I raced everyone on the road…. Yes I am crazy on the track and also on the road… I could not wipe the smile off my face… even though it was not running right !!<br>So I can’t wait to get this baby back now.<br><br>Well out of my limited time behind the wheel of my car LHD, it is really easy to drive.<br>It does take a bit of getting used to, you keep straying towards the middle of the road.<br>What you have to do is judge the distance from the curb, this is fine until some bugger has parked there and you WILL swing out too far then you need to !!! (Watch out for this as I have nearly come a cropper a few times with this)<br><br>Also over taking is really crap… you have to have a really good mate who will let you know when it is clear so you can then BOOT it PAST the car in front.<br>With out this person sitting in the other seat, you will have to sit back enough to see around the car in front and on coming traffic.<br>The other weird thing for the passenger is there is no Steering wheel or pedals !!!<br>I took my boss in mine and we was going around 120mph when he started thumping the floor with his foot trying to stop the car !!! this was when we was flying towards a massive roundabout and I told him the brakes were s**t !!!!<br><br>So Costas beers on me then pal.<br><br>See ya there<br><br>Game-on<br>

[Monty]

Even though I am the most back-to-front person in the whole of LEC, I done the same thing, fitted a more power full turbo and blew the big end bearings (one of the things why mine went wrong)

<br><br>The truth is out there  ;D<br><br>Costas, what a machine will be good to see all the bling and listen to that engine Roar  ;D

[Costas]

[quote author=Sy link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#200 date=02/17/05 at 02:51:25]I must question your sanity here.  ;)<br>[/quote]<br>Thank God you did!  <br>Blame it on my excitement  :-X<br><br>I personally have experience of driving a RHD car since i did my Msc Degree in Great Britain (Reading University) but I never thought the opposite about you guys.... My mistake.

[delta]

Delta.<br>Did something get lost in the translation above.  Did you mean awful, or were you going for awesome

<br>Well, I'm not quit sure, as I would NEVER take on a modification like this, converting this nice litle Elan to some kind of mod-car hybrid. ::)<br><br>But I must also confess that I find it very interesting, and it is certanly an awesome car.  

[Costas]

[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#204 date=02/17/05 at 04:41:00]As for the stock pistons not handling 1.2 for long...?  Did your shop question this?  I've run 1.3-1.4 for 3 years on stock internals, and short of a tune that apparently was running a touch lean at some point in the power band, the pistons were in fairly good shape when removed.[/quote]<br><br>Dave, your comment really caught me offguard. The belief in the DSP-Lotus after long research is that the stock pistons can be very sensitive to damage over 1.2bar. Anyways, one way or another, fact is that the JE Pistons are far more better so no harm done! In fact your precious feedback makes me feel more confident that the reliability of the engine is even better than I thought of.<br><br>About the NOS..... was installed mainly because I ve never done so before and wanted to live the experience of it and not because I was in the need of more Horsepower. After having a few runs with the 50hp shot or maybe even with the 100hp shot (I've installed a 150hp shot), it is more than certain that I shall decrease the shot to just 20hp so as that NOS will have a cooling healthy attitude to the engine and not a mucho one.<br>

[Costas]

[quote author=delta link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#205 date=02/17/05 at 08:17:17]<br>Well, I'm not quit sure, as I would NEVER take on a modification like this, converting this nice litle Elan to some kind of mod-car hybrid. ::)[/quote]<br>Delta, I highly respect your opinion but keep in mind that along with engine mods I did everything possible to increase roadhandling, grip and stability, not to mention that aesthetically with hood-down its an Elan S2 stock.<br><br>Perhaps a ride with the Sh4rk will change your mind! <br><br>Thx for your comments, negative ones and positive ones, all wellcome.<br><br>Costas

[Ashaman]

Great work on the car, it is very impressive.  I was skeptical at first when I heard all the talking; but it has really turned out beautiful.  Congratulations on the doing!<br><br>I am curious as to why there would be a question of durability on the stock pistons as well.  The question earlier about a lower CR was a good one, I thought maybe the answer was there as lowering the compression slightly will prevent detonation at higher boost levels.  Since you said they are the same as stock though, why the concern?  So long as you aren't running lean and/or detonating (which will kill em quick!) I wouldn't have been concerned?<br><br>Final comment on speed....unless I am missing something....all the engine mods in the world won't change the top speed of a car that runs out of gears (which a healthy Elan should do).  If it redlined before at ~147/7200, it will still redline at ~147/7200.  A gearing (including tires) or RPM change would be necessary to make that happen.  Did the new differential have a different ratio??  If not, you might want to verify with a GPS or something....a lot of dreamometers get really goofy in their upper range.  (Any Honda sportbike owners out there?  :-[ )<br><br>'Course you'll get there a whole lot quicker!

[Costas]

[quote author=Ashaman link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#209 date=02/17/05 at 14:41:12]I am curious as to why there would be a question of durability on the stock pistons as well.  Since you said they are the same as stock though, why the concern?[/quote]<br>The JE Pistons are almost the same as far as dimensions go, but as far as quality of material then there is no argument, they are by far better than the stock ones. Perhaps the stock ones could handle 1.2bar but i wouldnt feel relaxed, with the JE I feel more secure considering they can work at 1.5-1.6Bar with no risk. Must add that they do not lower the compresion ratio.<br><br>[quote author=Ashaman link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#209 date=02/17/05 at 14:41:12]....all the engine mods in the world won't change the top speed of a car that runs out of gears (which a healthy Elan should do). If it redlined before at ~147/7200, it will still redline at ~147/7200.[/quote]<br>I believe that the stock Elan can NOT reach the top speed as defined by gear ratios. It tops at 220km/h-137mph due to lack of power, so one thing you acomplish by increasing engine power is ability to reach the Top Speed that the Gear Ratios allow you to and thats 147mph as you mentioned? The speed on the speedometer is obviously not the actual one, but it is great fun to see the speedometer needle going beyond the last reading isnt it?! <br><br>[quote author=Ashaman link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#209 date=02/17/05 at 14:41:12] A gearing (including tires) or RPM change would be necessary to make that happen.[/quote]<br>I ll keep the answer to that as surpise later on <br><br>As I mentioned before, my goal with that video was not to prove a higher Top Speed but to show the RATE at which it accelerates from 220 to 265kmh on the speedometer. Keep in mind that as i mentioned this was done with low settings on the Car's abilities.<br><br>------------<br><br>About the Stock Pistons as I was today informed, even though its not the case of this thread but because some ppl argued about it: <br> <br>Roger Barton, Technical Service Manager on Lotus Cars Engines, during the Training Courses that he teached to Mechanical Engineers of the Official Lotus Dealer in Greece in the year 1994, suggested that the Isuzu-Elan Engine shouldnt work over 1.2bar pressure with stock pistons. That was teached by the Lotus Official Mechanical Engineer and that we followed. <br> <br>If you guys have a Lotus Official argument to that, please let me know.  <br> <br>Because i dont want to be misunderstood I have for once more to say that we intend to operate the engine steadily for some time at 1.2bar and even try 1.5 to see its limits, therefore according the Lotus Official suggestion, the stock pistons had to go.  <br> <br>Costas

[Costas]

[quote author=Dave M. link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=165#176 date=02/14/05 at 18:09:40]....After the IC and exhaust when running 255 WHP (close to 300 crank)....[/quote]<br>Dave, at what Boost pressure did you acomplish such hp? Did you go over 1.0-1.2bar to acomplish that? If yes, how far did you go?<br><br>Your feedback is precious and will be most welcomed.  <br><br>Costas<br>

[Ashaman]

I just thought I would ask about the pistons to see what the thinking was.  I only run ~1bar right now, but ~1.3 is my target range (max of my turbo efficiency, I believe).  I have always felt that was a pretty "safe" target, but that was based on what others have done and not "technical."  Some of the Isuzone folks were running ~1.6 bar; I think Dave M. was running~ 1.5 bar.<br><br>Interesting point on the top speed, maybe a stock Elan cannot.  I thought that figure was for the UK spec with smaller 15" tires.  However, it looks like they are a taller profile to make up the difference, so that shouldn't matter..I dunno.  Given the gear ratios, it should definitely do better than the 136 that is listed...hmm.  I have never had a stock Elan to play with, I just know that redline is just shy of 150Mph. <br><br>Are you working on getting some new gears cut?!? That would be cool....of course, the Elan is pretty lightweight, I guess it is up to higher top speeds aerodynamically?  It feels very stable up to 150 to me.....<br><br><br><br><br>

[Costas]

For what I know 1.2 bar is a the "safe limit", beyond that risks take place of damaging the engine. If Dave runs at 1.5bar on stock pistons as you mentioned (I asked him at my previous post) and he has no problems, then that would be serious news to me! Dont take me wrong here, I am trying to learn from other's experiences and pass all my own experience through this thread to you all  :-[<br><br>At least the 1.5bar boost pressure easily explains the 255whp he mentioned since every increase in pressure of 0.1 bar produces 10-15 hp more  ;)<br> <br>About top speed: Elan is amazingly stable at stop speed as you also mentioned and a joy to witness it  :o<br> <br>I am not getting new gears...  :-X<br>

[Philbo]

[quote author=Neil D. link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=195#195 date=02/16/05 at 22:08:12]Sh4rk<br><br>At approx 200 BHP, per litre you are closing in on Formula cars.<br>[/quote]<br><br>But still quite a way to go for the bhp/litre for F1 forced induction...end of the turbo era, the Ferrari's in qualifying trim were producing over 1500bhp from a 1.5 litre engine!<br><br>200bhp/litre forced induction still pretty good though; Evo FQ-400 is running about the same but does it with pretty nasty lag. Of course, Costas' 325bhp is nitrous-aided, so not exactly apples and oranges.

[Costas]

[quote author=Philbo link=board=project;num=1102128446;start=210#214 date=02/21/05 at 07:02:57]Costas' 325bhp is nitrous-aided, so not exactly apples and oranges.[/quote]<br><br>So true, but be patient my friend! a couple of weeks the most.... <br><br>Just when I thought Sh4rk Project was finished.... it had just started!  ;)<br><br>The car is getting a brand new "rear" look and since that would take 2+ weeks to be completed I took the chance to upgrade-modify the guts of the engine.<br><br>Data, feedback and pictures in the following days.<br><br>Costas

[Costas]

THX a million for the feedback Dave, much appreciated!  :)<br><br>My exhaust is allready modified to its racing best at 2.5", I ve also installed Rossi competition-racing cat and as posted in this thread I ve got a custom made downpipe as well, so I guess I am going for a better-bigger IC in the future! <br><br>Dave, whould you please post a picture and if possible data of your IC?

[Costas]

We are under research of installing bigger fuel injectors. <br>Any ideas? Comments, experiences of those who allready installed any? What kind? What brand? How much bigger? Where to get them from? What problems encountered? <br><br>Any feedback will be precious.<br><br>Costas

[Ashaman]

Ditto that on the 370s...car runs fine, I have no issues with idle, etc.  However, after installing my wideband O2, I now see it goes off the chart rich under boost.  I also think that I have lost some power as well.<br><br>Soo...yeah....they "work" in as much as the car RUNS, you might be able to make it work WELL with an adjustable regulator?  I bought one, but never got around to hooking it up to test, I just bought the Haltech instead...I still wonder how well it would have worked.<br><br>Safest would be 550s & fuel management, it isn't like you are skimping anywhere else with this project, and this would probably be a poor place to start  ;D  <br><br>Everything is way too pretty to suffer from a hokey fuel setup!