What to do about heavy rust around the outriggers

[basher]

Personally, I would plate it. Not because I think the structure is unduly compromised ( I don't think it looks too bad- mine and others I've seen were worse) but because I think you can get it done for not a lot of money and put your mind at rest.

But do treat the rust as a bare minimum, the steps you suggest seem pretty extensive. If it goes untouched and spreads backwards on that outrigger it' runs under the fuel tank and will be difficult to see or do anything with.

[andy b]

I would just treat and leave it when you weld the area what do we think about heat sink into the surrounding area the bond between steel and fiberglas will be compromised so it could be you have added no more strength to the structure by welding. if there is plenty of good metal around the jacking points and they support the car don't worry about it as long as it does not get worse. This is really a personal choice but if you don't have the kit it could be expensive.
and cosmetic rather than structural.

[epipete]

Honestly, that really doesn't look to bad, yeah if you were a competent welder, for reasons of OCD you might want to cut it out but I suggest you rust treat it, add a bit of sikaflex and leave.

Take some before and after pictures so you can compare in the future sometime.

The real issue in your case as you've found out about it so soon is, aside from stopping the further degradation now, is to query why it has started and address that; first and foremost in that analysis is to replace the wet soggy crappy underlay with closed cell foam

Good luck

[Ade]

Hi all,
in my opinion for what it is worth, as the old saying goes, if a job is worth doing do it properly. The finished job should be as good as the original or better.
I am close to finishing repairing both my outriggers at a cost of about £150 in total. As I don,t have any welding equipment that was where the bulk of the money was spent. It is time consuming but not that difficult. The pics are not of the finished job, but the riggers before the final coat of paint. You will also notice I have put a lip at the base of the rigger so now as well as being bonded to the side it is also bonded and screwed with stainless steel pins to the floor. All the welding was seam welding, the weld was then dressed, filled and painted. The plate I fabricated myself so the only work that required out side help was to have it welded in place.

[cliff]

Looks good Ade, nice work. Would you like to do a more in depth write up with additional pictures. I am going to have to do mine sooner rather than later and all help accepted.

[Ade]

Thanks for the comment Cliff,
I was going to put more info and more pics, but my digital camera as packed in. As for the info it is one of those jobs you need to show someone how to do, because it is very difficult to explain. The main thing to get right is the replacement panel because it as to be beaten into shape. The cutting of the holes is no problem, but rounding of the edges is.
Any help I can give you don,t be afraid to ask, I will be glad to help in any way I can. I dont know where you live, but if it is anywhere near Shropshire you could come and have a look, or if you are in the area at anytime.
I will have a think about how to put what I have done into something that will make sense. You could also pm me if you need to know what to do, that might be better, then we could go through it a stage at a time.

Ade.

[basher]

Ade,
Lovely job that looks like it will last and all for a quite reasonable price.
I think you have every reason to be pleased with that.

[Ade]

Thanks for that Basher.

Ade

[Elannewbie]

Right, dumb question - where is the best place to get closed cell foam insulation from?

[chrisP]

I used these people: They delivered in a timely manner and the product seems good

https://www.easyfoam.co.uk/closed-cell- ... e-foam.php

Regards
Chris

[rip]

dumb question

Seemed like quite a reasonable question to me.

[Elannewbie]

Cheers Chris, nice one

Regards
Grahame

[Enright]

I used these people: They delivered in a timely manner and the product seems good

https://www.easyfoam.co.uk/closed-cell- ... e-foam.php

Regards
Chris

Chris,
Did you go for the 10mm stuff, and how much did you use? I'm assuming that you replaced all of the pieces in the floorpan and also along the sides?
A friend of mine suggested that a good idea might be some really big bags of silica gel that you can microwave the moisture out of.
Of course there's no subsitute for stopping the moisture getting into the car in the first place, but for many of us that ship has already sailed and now the fallout needs to be dealt with.
I just removed all of the carpets from 2 Elans yesterday, and as a result will be having nightmares for weeks!

[dapinky]

Neil,

are you going to the West Mids meeting on Thursday?

If so, I still have a fair bit of the 10mm foam which I used and can bring it along for you.

I used the non-sticky stuff and held it in place with a squirt of spray adhesive, working on the principle that once fitted, it shouldn't move around much, and the self-adhesive stuff would be harder to remove in the future.

[Enright]

Hi Dave,

I'm really glad you replied because I'd like to pick your brains about this subject, but unfortunately I've got to collect my son after his footy club so won't be able to make it along.

I'll post some pics of the horror story in a bit...

[Rambo]

but for many of us that ship has already sailed

I think "s**t has already hit the fan" would be more appropriate Neil I have kept part of my near side outrigger to show how bad it can get. If and when there is another Donington it can be stuck on the stand as a display item. Mind you, by the time Club Lotus get their act together it might have rusted to nothing LOL

[Enright]

Mark,

Did you do any prep work when you had yours done, or did you just hand it over and pay oodles of money?

Here's what my original Elan looks like inside. I've now got to consider how much of the work I can do myself, when, and how much it's going to cost me.

[epipete]

Personally, it looks terrible, but, it is, I think, no different from the repairs already undertaken on less rusty cars. On a positive there doesn't seem to be anything requiring to be cut out above the top bend in the outrigger so you are only cutting out flat metal!

The process for the fronts is well documented (Ade's effort above seems to be most applauded but is no different to what Bob did, and I later copied ) in your case the metal insert will have to go further back and there will need to be some consideration if how to tackle the seatbelt mounts if they are also affected.

Basher did a repair to his rears, that at the time I confess I didn't understand but looking at the pictures on his photo bucket looks really good, which is also documented here. These pictures need to be downloaded onto the site (with Bashers permission) as it would be terrible to lose them and have to reinvent the wheel.

If the braces are also gone then these are easily replaced given that they are Sikaflexed to the floor pan but because of this I would start with repairing the length in the middle section (to include the front section if possible) and then the rears.

The other thought though is, because it is the length of the outrigger, it'll need to be treated as a seperate job for each corner doing the middle first will keep the rigidity of the floor where there may be some concern about ensuring there is no flexing when you remove the old rusty bits, maybe a length of wood jacked tight along the bottom of the cill?

I think that the start point, as with all good projects, is a plan. A step by step detail of the processes required into which you can incorporate any issues as you think it through - I'm sorry, that cliche about 'sucking eggs' comes to mind.

Good luck, daunting but not unachievable by any measure and needn't be too expensive in cash terms but probably more so in stress and time!

Pete

[dapinky]

Neil,

as said previously - it's all do-able.

Much of it will depend on the bits you can't see in the photos (the end sections, where it joins to the bulkhead and the B-post) - but the bits I can see are straightforward enough (if fiddly and can be time consuming).

Firstr consideration is to remove the soundproofing at the front so you can see the total extent of the damage.

As far as how much you can do yourself goes, it will depend on if you're going to be doing your own metalwork & welding, or getting it done by someone else.

Cutting out the grot is easy enough with an angle grinder - but getting right up to the corners can be awkward - i'd just take a 2" slice off the bottom of the plate all the way along (and not worry about where the circular cut-outs are) - but others have had the metal replaced with perfect circles etc (I'm not skilled enough to fabricate exact panels, and it won't get seen anyway, so my cut line was about 1" into the circles (in places) and replaced with a flat bit of suitable steel - thus the circles are now incomplete.

As Pete said, I'd do it in 2 bits - front first, then rear.

Bear in mind that the jacking point is welded to the bit you're cutting away, so don't go into the panel too deep at that point with the cutter - and you'll need to make extra grinds along the 2 (nearly) vertical bits of the jacking point - they are spot welded, but can be repaired with plug welds or seam welds as appropriate.

Once the visible grot is away, you will clearly see the jacking point (it's only folded steel welded in the right place) and it is easy enough to repair any bits that require it - it may be a good time to chop it into iron filings and replace with a stainless item - certainly the threaded bit at the bottom where the conical bolt goes in, which you can replace with a suitable stainless bolt.... (project creep everywhere you look!).

The rear section is more awkward to get at, but the principle is the same - cut out the grot and replace with new steel.

I'd pay particular attention to the seat belt mounting area (bear in mind that if you want/need to replace the fitting for the seat belt it is an Imperial thread, not a metric one) for structural soundness, and the seat mounting for position/location - the rest is partially imaterial what it ends up like.

According to the MOT manual, any corrossion within 30cm of a seatbelt fixing is a failure - the only reason that Elans ever get to this stage is because the tester can't lift carpets to have a look, so has to rely on a 'tug-test' - in most cars it would all have been spotted years ago and fixed.

[epipete]

Use a Dremmel where an Angle Grinder can't access.

Both Dave and I seem to agree that the mid section (with the front if possible) is the place to start but this is your decision, if you choose to start it there (though it might apply however you do it), & I'm assuming the car won't be jacked anywhere but will be sitting on its 4 wheels, make sure the mid section is supported underneath, whilst I can't see that it will flex as you will only be cutting just above the grot line and there will still be the original metalwork spanning the area above it is nevertheless probably a good precaution if you have to work on the braces.

Pete