ALL CARS ON EBAY.

[Tuga2112]

the problem i see with the comments is that there are about 20 negative com,ments on a bad car but on a good car never more than 5.

a prospective buyer looking at this thread will simplyy get the impression 99% of the elans out there are no good. it may be true that 99% of then need some kind of work on. but that doesnt mean they are rubbish.

[dapinky]

Joao, you are right - it's always far easier to critisize than to compliment.

Maybe the issue here is that the thread title is "cars on Ebay" - and as we all (probably) appreciate, Ebay is not always considered to be the best marketplace for cars like the elan.

For an 'everyday' car it takes some beating due to the variety of availability, but for specialist listings the cars advertised tend to fall into a couple of categories:-
1) Top-end 'classified' adverts
2) 'Entry level' cars

It is the middle ground which only ocassionally sees adverts, and I believe that the issue with the 'bottom end' market (don't get me wrong, I love them - it's where I get my cars from!) is that it does seem to attract some sellers who are trying to portray their wares as being better than they are.

I believe that it is our responsibility to point out the major issues, whilst not nit-picking the minor foibles.

One of my pet hates is when an advert spends a whole paragraph detailing what has been done to some parts of the car (which would cost perhaps £100 and a days work), and then says "99% complete - just needs roof seals and rear suspension arms could do with some TLC"....

Now, as owners, we all know (or should do) that the roof seals are not cheap (if you can get them) and take a lot of effort to fit correctly. Whilst suspension corrosion can be terminal, or at best, expensive to rectify.

An unwary purchaser may think that they can grab a bargain and have it fixed over a weekend with parts from Halfords.

On the other hand, if you look at other threads "Elans for sale" etc, you are far more likely to see positive comments on a car than negative ones - because we possibly know the owner and/or the car, and it will have some sort of chackable history.

Bottom line (from me!) is that any critisism I make is generally about the advertising, and not the car - if it's an honest advert, it'll get a buyer for the right price..... as I mentioned before, even a real dog would find a home with me for the right price, but I know what I'm prepared to pay for these things, and won't go above a price which is worth it to me.

[Artaban]

[Kathryn]

I think the reason there are more negative comments is because if a car is good the comment may be something like: 'yeah that looks like a good one, all the recommended upgrades have been done and it appears well looked after, that will be a decent car for someone.' Nothing more to say.
But if it isn't so good and/or the seller appears dodgy then it will attract more comments and opinions. And rightly so. As has been said very few cars of this age will be perfect.

You would be a bit miffed if you bought a 'dog' and didn't find out until afterwards. You'd ask why did no-one warn me?

[Scott J]

If I was buying a car eBay would be the last place I would look. Auto trader or Pistonheads.

[Tuga2112]

if a car is good the comment may be something like: 'yeah that looks like a good one, all the recommended upgrades have been done and it appears well looked after, that will be a decent car for someone.' Nothing more to say.

I think this mentality is part of the problem. as owners (and enthusiasts) we are keeping our cars in the best condition we can given our financial position. also as enthusiasts we put an extra effort into our cars than any normal owner.

if you take into consideration that, the standard we want (and apparently expect) all elans to be is far better than any Elan that has been "just a car" for someone for a while. (or in some cases better than when it came of of the factory) considering they are now passing through the 25 year milestone. It is unrealistic to expect a "random" car to be anywhere near that condition.

I think it is very correct for all of us to comment objectively on the flaws of the car. but we could also add relevant information about the work that we suspect will need. like "rear wishbones look like wont last another year. thats an extra 3 figures bill for the part. that a buyer should keep in mind" or "seals need work. Jamie's thread could help whoever buys this one." basically, just give the poor fellow wanting to buy one the chance to know the pros and cons.

The humour is amusing for the other members of the forum, which can understand the (many times hidden) message, where someone new will be very confused
Try to put yourself in the shoes of a person that is thinking about "maybe" buying an Elan seeking help from us by reading this. what would you want to know objectively about the car history, viewings?

potential or likely issues? estimate of the parts ? the level of skill required for such task? or maybe detail like "job is easy, as long as you have a garage and a engine hitch" or "Geoff's tip on changing the oil get anyone half mechanically inclined through the process"

also. some of these sellers have completely no clue about their car and when asked will happily relay the missing information.
It takes a lot of time under the bonnet (or reading) to know the amount of stuff we know about the car.

I have now written and deleted chunks of this post 4 times trying to make it shorter and less boring. afraid this is as short as i can make it.
Will try to resist the temptation of posting another reply in future.

[Artaban]

Tuga,
its always good to hear peoples points of view even if we don't agree all the time; thats what I like about this forum. Your reply does raise a question which I would love to know the answer to. How many SE's and S2's are left on the road and how many active members are on this forum. Enthusiasts will do the best they can for the car which is great but what percentage of Elans out there are owned by enthusiasts. I appreciate that not all enthusiasts will belong to this forum but it might shed some light on how many are possibly in the "just a car for someone for a while" category.

Anybody know?
Andy

[par]

If I was buying a car eBay would be the last place I would look. Auto trader or Pistonheads.

Ebay is where I bought the car in your avatar from, so its not all that bad

[Kathryn]

Tuga,
its always good to hear peoples points of view even if we don't agree all the time; thats what I like about this forum. Your reply does raise a question which I would love to know the answer to. How many SE's and S2's are left on the road and how many active members are on this forum. Enthusiasts will do the best they can for the car which is great but what percentage of Elans out there are owned by enthusiasts. I appreciate that not all enthusiasts will belong to this forum but it might shed some light on how many are possibly in the "just a car for someone for a while" category.

Anybody know?
Andy

Interesting point about how many are owned by enthusiasts. I always imagined owners of such cars as ours looked after them, but of course that's not always the case! There's a Porsche Boxster in a driveway up my road with four flat tyres and a soft top that's turning green. Its been there as long if not longer than I've had my Elan (nearly 2 years) and I think 'why don't you fix that car up and drive it? And look after it. If not, sell it to someone who will!'

Last year I had a man come bounding over to my Elan with the words 'it's immaculate!' Asked how long I'd had it, all the usual questions. He said he'd seen quite a few that were pretty rough, none as good as mine. Not an Elan owner but he certainly sounded like an enthusiast! ( and I myself would certainly not use the word 'immaculate', I can see every stonechip, scratch and scrape etc, plus the car wasn't exactly clean. I guess, like a true enthusiast, he understood that a car this age won't be perfect)

[paul27848]

Hello Kathryn,
good to see another palacio S2 within LEC, I'm No.751/800. Hope to see your car at some future event.
Paul

[andys2cars]

Hello, you are ALL right, you have the prospective new owner in mind, as you yourself has suffered some heartache and costs.
Why notfer (at a price) a service that new owners can use so you go to view and report on the car, like an rac check? there are salesmen that would gaffer tape some poor elan to make a quick buck. and ours is morphing from a dog back to a skateboarding feline!!! ps sorry about the comment altaban glad you were not offended

[lotusles]

If I was buying a car eBay would be the last place I would look. Auto trader or Pistonheads.

But in most instances they are the same cars

[Artaban]

I bought mine from eBay and it was a little unloved by the time I bought it but like Mr Pink I like to restore the car myself to a standard I am happy with because I'm a fussy *ugger. eBay is fine for cars and you can get some real bargains and some immaculate ones as well. I certainly wouldn't put anyone off buying from eBay but like anything else knowledge can help avoid those financially painful surprises. The good thing about this forum is that when someone is looking to buy a car and expresses an interest in one for sale on eBay there is usually someone local who is prepared to pop round and report back on it. Perhaps we should do more to encourage genuinely interested buyers to take advantage of this.
When I bought my first Lotus in about 1986, Steve at SJ's (who had just started his business) said to me that the cheapest part of owning a Lotus is buying it. With receipts of £18K+ in the past 6 years I know that nothings changed and the car is still far from perfect.
Andy

[lotusflasherman]

Bought a car for my son via ebay last Friday without even looking at it - 2005 Ford Mondeo 3.0 V6 Titanium X with 59k miles on for £2,300 and only 15 miles away. It was also on Autotrader with lots of photos but 36 people were watching it on ebay and only 1 day to go so I checked it's MOT history on the .gov site and as there were no Advisory Notes of any significance (Chip on windscreen) and MOT to end of March so clicked Buy it Now before anybody else did. ebay wouldn't let me complete purchase as it queried 'Postage Charges' but did flag it as 'Sold'. Went to see it and offered to pay cash to save the guy Paypal charges so he said "we'll split the saving so £2,250 will do"... and then he said it was booked in for an MOT Saturday so would come with 12 months MOT. The mileage was actually 58,175 so he'd rounded that up to 59k ! Don't think I'd employ him as a car salesman..

It's got 200 bhp, built in SatNav and DVD player with screens in the rear of the front headrest so 'fully loaded' in every way so there are some decent cars on ebay. Only problem is it's now my son's so I won't be driving it and I see that Ford only made 37 of them so it's more exclusive than an Elan, DAMN IT!

Pretty sure I'd not buy an Elan unseen though... whether it's on ebay, Autotrader or Piston Heads.

[dapinky]

Pretty sure I'd not buy an Elan unseen though... whether it's on ebay, Autotrader or Piston Heads.

You'd have to be a bit daft to buy one unseen........

.......Like I did with the blue one

My red one was on Ebay, but only 1.5 miles from home - it was a really poor advert (limited description and only 2 pictures), so it undoubtably put off many potential bidders. But having the advantage of seeing it, driving it and then offering cash I got a good deal.

The blue one was more of an 'impulse buy'. but the advert was well worded, all history listed, and plenty of pictures. As such, (and knowing a little about elans) I was happy to bid on it. I was the only bidder, so got it for the starting price (that is usually a clue in itself - if a car is listed for 99p start you have no idea of the price wanted by the seller - if it starts at a 'fair' price, with no reserve, then it tells you the minimum the seller will take - as long as there isn't then a flurry of 'dodgy' bids later on).

The communications I had with the seller gave me confidence in both him and the car, so we set off on the long trip to Norwich with an envelope full of cash. First thing we got upon arrival was a cup of tea and bacon sandwich (before even seeing the car). Followed by a long chat about the elan, Lotus in general, and why he was selling it.

He was employed at Lotus and had owned various versions for the past 14 years, so knew what he was buying (and then selling!), and whilst he wasn't a dealer as such, he did deal in Lotus' as and when he found something at the right price.

He was happy to point out everything on the car which was 'wrong' or needed attention and I had great confidence in both seller and car.

Having handed over the cash it drove home (250 miles) without missing a beat.... I only had a week before the Lotus 60th 'do' at Hethel, so it only got an oil change (which it didn't really need) and a couple of really minor things before going back to where it had just come from.

So basically, it went 800 miles in 10 days and nowt dramatic happened!

I think the key to buying/selling from Ebay etc is communication (written advert, pictures, and talking between seller and buyer) which gives confidence to everyone involved.

Unfortunately, some people are a little less than totally honest (in every arena of sales, not just online), but a few questions leading to dialogue can usually give an indication as to whether you continue or just walk away.

Oh, and my own research into the car and its history showed me that the guy I bought it from had only made £150 on the deal from when he bought it a month or so previously - and he had put a new MOT on it (which needed 2 tyres) and a good valet.

So, I would say that he was definately a great guy to buy from - totally honest, and was happy with his small profit.

[Sport Paolo]

I think this one also fits into the 'a little unloved 'category .
Feel sorry for it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/111893511888

[Artaban]

At that price I wouldn't consider it a gamble. You can assess the cost of getting it back to a reliable runner or if thats too much you'd still be in profit by selling the parts. The wheels alone would cover the bulk of the cost.
Andy

[dapinky]

..... The wheels alone would cover the bulk of the cost.

..... assuming that the 3 buckled ones as mentioned as advisories in previous MOTs have been replaced.....

[clemo]

At that price I wouldn't consider it a gamble. You can assess the cost of getting it back to a reliable runner or if thats too much you'd still be in profit by selling the parts. The wheels alone would cover the bulk of the cost.
Andy

Oh my ...
The best thing about sharing information is that it is out there for everyone to read ..

This is why we do tell of our findings and then get shot down by some for being too vocal .

[Tuga2112]

..... The wheels alone would cover the bulk of the cost.

..... assuming that the 3 buckled ones as mentioned as advisories in previous MOTs have been replaced.....

checking previous MOT history is easy and free.
however you have to also consider different garages will have extremely different standards.

My mum's car passed an MOT 3 months ago. I took it to the garage that does my cars for a "timing belt change and quick look around"
the car returned with a list of issues. including
-one of the tyres was cracked from the inside and could explode at any moment
-ABS wire in the front offside wheel is loose and enters contact with the tyre on full lock
-lower ball join dust boot was cracked and losing oil
and another 2 issues that i do not recall the details

as far as im aware all these 3 issues are MOT failures. (although i fail to understand how the ball joint issue can directly affect safety) and i highly doubt all these issues would appear in a 2 month time lapse.