Outer Window / door Seals

[clemo]

Trying to find the old thread - so point me in the right direction and i will merge them .

I helped friend dismantle a 51 plate MR2 convertible .
It would seem that the external door seal ( rubber bit to window seal) is the same size in length and fits very very well at first look .
It even has a nice chamfered edge where it drops off at the squishy handle side .

Now this is only a visual first look , and the strip only buts up to the wing mirror ( rather than under it like ours do )BUT it is a tidy block end not a diminishing piece of rubber .

I do have a spare door that i can test it on ( when i have a bit of spare time) .

At first glance it looks promising .

As for the internal strip from an MR2 its not long enough .

Also and sadly i took the deck top end finishers from the MR2 as they looked like they could be adapted to make ours less messy . Though i can't find the damn things . Maybe they got put with my mates bits when stripping the car .

I also took the entire door seal that goes all the way down , underneath to the sills and back up the other side .
Yet to play with them .

1 thing at a time . Back to the external weather strip over christmas for some more investigations .

I know that Jim Muley tried a different external seal version , and Jamie used the Honda CRV ? version . i see that MR2 was mentioned earlier in the seals thread . Though this is the last of the last MR2's so possibly a mk5 ?. Anyway may lead to nothing but always worth a look .

Anyone have any other luck OR did you just fit the originals and cut down the screw so they don't poke though the door skin .


Bye for now

clemo

[Jamie N]

There are currently a couple of member's in the process of trialling another alternative which I have found Dave, I will leave it to the guilty parties to evaluate if they are useable , provisionally they look stupendously good, and they way of attaching them to the door is a leap forward from the rusty tabs on the originals, they also have a proper end cap at the lock end completing the neatness.

They are very similar to these EM Civic ones which I have fitted at the moment, and indeed once again it's good old Honda to the rescue, if these were a bit more common in the breakers there would be no need to look at anything else, they work perfect and look great.


Having looked at a vast array of different cars in the yard I firmly believe there will be at least 3 or 4 different option's that can be modified fairly easily for our Elan's, the quality of weather strips has moved on immensely since 1989 and the difference on aesthetic value alone is well worth the effort of going out and seeing what you can find. I have looked at MK 1, 2 and 3 MR2 but the difficulty with those is all the ones I have seen were a press fit onto the door, whereas the Honda ones have retaining clips which match up with the Elan door (with a slight bit of modification).

These stainless steel backed ones also perform way better than the original by holding the glass more stable, being held in place by plastic brackets which clip inside the strip and screwed into the original holes inside the door. There does seem to be the potential of opening up a can of worm's in the swapping over though due to having to remove the door glass and dealing with the insectivorous problem of butterfly's with broken wings, I was lucky though, no issues with mine.

Pretty sure there will be a new topic with all the gory details imminently.

[Steve A]

Trying to find the old thread - so point me in the right direction and i will merge them .


clemo

Depends how far you want to go back viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9961&p=119360#p119360
Gordon did a kit which I have had on my car (subject to change ) for the best part of 10 years, Gordon's link doesn't work unfortunately
but he deserves the credit for an early alternative to the original seal.

[par]

Here are a few photos of the other Honda window seals that have been modified to fit the Elan courtesy of Jamie, they do require a bit of fettling to get right but it does really transform the look from the old cracked and perished seals. Pictures are not great with the body colour being black and would have been better taken in daylight but as with most things on a Lotus it took a bit longer than I had planned and the daylight opportunity had passed:-

[Steve A]

Looking good
Can you expand on your fettling
As you will know by now the curvature of the top edge of the door at the "lock end" gets steeper around 4 inches from the end
which in turn causes the seal to want to lean inwards, did you manage to bend the seal to match the curve
How is the seal to glass contact

[par]

Steve - I managed to get some bend on the seal but not enough to match the curve at the lock end of the door because the seal is made with a metal U-channel section. I had to position the clips so they use the natural spring of the seal to hold it closer to the shape of the door, there is still a very small gap at the curve but nothing to get concerned about. I positioned the seal using 4 of the clips, 1 at either end and then 1 each about 4 inches in from each end.

The seal to glass contact is very good thanks to the design of the Honda part - the glass contact edge has a flexible lip which can be flexed to make good contact. I didnt realise this at first because the rubber was fairly hard due to the cold temperature and had a gap by the mirror end but by manipulating the rubber lip I managed to close it completely, there is a lot of adjustability.

[Steve A]

Steve - I managed to get some bend on the seal but not enough to match the curve at the lock end of the door because the seal is made with a metal U-channel section. I had to position the clips so they use the natural spring of the seal to hold it closer to the shape of the door, there is still a very small gap at the curve but nothing to get concerned about. I positioned the seal using 4 of the clips, 1 at either end and then 1 each about 4 inches in from each end.

The seal to glass contact is very good thanks to the design of the Honda part - the glass contact edge has a flexible lip which can be flexed to make good contact. I didnt realise this at first because the rubber was fairly hard due to the cold temperature and had a gap by the mirror end but by manipulating the rubber lip I managed to close it completely, there is a lot of adjustability.

This is all very encouraging to know.
Can you now remove/attach the Honda seal without removing the window glass ?
Did you have to use any spacers behind the clips to change the seal angle ?

[Steve A]

What would be really useful if you could take a picture with the door open
with a view along the door from the lock end showing how the seal sits on top of the door

[par]

Not quite what you asked but the only other pictures I have at the moment, the large shadow is the curve of the door top and not the gap (would be easier to capture on any colour other than black):-





Unfortunately I still need to remove the glass to remove the strip as access to the screw for the 1st clip at the lock end needs the rail to be moved out of the way. It would be possible by selecting other positions for the clips but then you might not get as good a fit to the curve of the door. I didnt need any spacers behind the clips, the seal kind of finds its own seating position.

As said a bit of fettling and a lot of patience is required

[clemo]

Does the seal wider than the originals ?
As in if cars have has a respray would the paint edge show or be covered ?

I cut mine off in order not to have a paint edge but others may not have this option .

cheers

[Jamie N]

Both of the versions here ( Honda EM1 and GH1) are wider than the original's by around 3 to 4 mm , so if you had a re-spray where they had masked it instead of removing the trim then the Honda ones would cover the paint ridge easily.

[Steve A]

Progress has been made

[par]

Looks good, it really works well with the red paintwork

Good fettling skills

[Steve A]

Looks good, it really works well with the red paintwork

Good fettling skills

Did you find that when you put the glass back it was a tight squeeze especially at the lock end
I had a quick go but ran out of time

[par]

Yes it was a tight squeeze and another pair of hands would have been useful, but it will go in.

The tricky part is getting the rollers in the lower slider blocks past the lip of the guide rail while trying the hold the window in the right position, once that is done it is fairly easy to line up the other sliders.

[Steve A]

Yes it was a tight squeeze and another pair of hands would have been useful, but it will go in.

The tricky part is getting the rollers in the lower slider blocks past the lip of the guide rail while trying the hold the window in the right position, once that is done it is fairly easy to line up the other sliders.

Yes those bloody rollers plus all the other bits and bobs you have to get past the seal only to find you have to go up again
and then you end up with everything covered in vaseline not to mention freezing my tits off whilst doing it

[par]

You are right about the vaseline, my windows wont be getting chapped lips anytime soon