Part time PAS effort

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Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Tue 17.09.2019, 08:33

its my turn to ask for help with steering issues.

My power steering is working sometimes and sometimes not at all. i am a bit baffled by the symptoms as i cant find any way to reproduce the failure reliably.
usually it appears the power steering is less efficient when the car is revving more. however there is still some effect when doing parking manoeuvres. that doesn't mean it wont feel a very heavy at low revs when turning in a roundabout in town.

one other thing i noticed recently is that the hissing sound i used to have on full lock, now seems to be present when im not on full lock, but this is not all the time. and it does not appear to correlate with the steering "heaviness" feel

things that i tried to fix it
1 - fluid replacement, using a siphon i drained all the fluid from the reservoir and replaced it with dextron 2, which is the exact same thing i put there % years ago when i first bought the car.
2 - PAS pump replacement. as i had a spare pump from 5 years ago when i bought the car and assumed the system was broken until another member of the club told me how to properly check if it was working.
3 - removing the driver's carpet, basically this was under the assumption that the carpet could be causing some friction in the axle.

the power of placebo made me believe in every instance that the problem somehow improved slightly, but this morning i started the car and there was no PAS at all for the first 2 miles i drove, then the PAS started having more and more effect, as by the time i arrived at work the car appeared to be back to normal.

i've read a post about the UJ https://forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=20490
but from my basic understanding of mechanics. i cant see how a UJ would be responsible for power steering partially working, it appears to be the kind of part i would be replacing if i had a bit of play in the steering wheel.

one thing that a friend suggested was there may be deposits of something, possibly rust in the steering rack that would be causing the pistons to not move freely, which would negate the effect of the PAS I will be investigating how to do a complete fluid drain in the system (hopefully from the bottom of the steering rack) in hope to rule this possbility out. so if anyone has any pointers to help with that they will be welcome.

but the main point im posting is that id like suggestions as to what other people think of my situation and if anyone can suggest any further techniques/trick to help diagnose the issue.
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Fredjohn » Tue 17.09.2019, 12:02

Just an obvious thought: have you checked the condition/tension of the pump drive belt?

Or is it slipping because the pulleys are oily?
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Tue 17.09.2019, 12:15

Fredjohn wrote:Just an obvious thought: have you checked the condition/tension of the pump drive belt?

Or is it slipping because the pulleys are oily?


yes i did i also tension it a little more than before when fitting the replacement pump
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
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94 4Runner
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too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Simon_P » Tue 17.09.2019, 17:58

Could be the rack seals leaking.
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Kipperozzy » Fri 20.09.2019, 11:28

Hello Tuga, have you tried removing the cover to expose the lower UJ and spraying your favourite release fluid on it. If this is rusty or worn maybe it’s sticking a bit , and or some spraying from below up into the well and working the steering with the wheels off the ground. I think it’s needle roller bearings and being exposed rusts especially if not used regularly.
I changed mine last winter and the steering stiffness has gone.
Not the most accessible joint but I thing it’s easier than changing the rack and cheaper
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Fri 20.09.2019, 11:42

Kipperozzy wrote:Hello Tuga, have you tried removing the cover to expose the lower UJ and spraying your favourite release fluid on it. If this is rusty or worn maybe it’s sticking a bit , and or some spraying from below up into the well and working the steering with the wheels off the ground. I think it’s needle roller bearings and being exposed rusts especially if not used regularly.
I changed mine last winter and the steering stiffness has gone.
Not the most accessible joint but I thing it’s easier than changing the rack and cheaper

Kipperozzy thanks for the input.
Have not tried that yet.

i was told the exact same thing last night at the west midlands meetup.
im going to see if i can try doing that this weekend.
in the meanwhile i have ordered the defender UJ from ebay,concidering the price, even if i dont need to swap it, its not a big hit on the wallet.
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
91 MR2 Turbo (import) project
94 Celica GT4 (Import)
94 4Runner
98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Kipperozzy » Fri 20.09.2019, 13:03

Yes but a bit of a wriggle to fit it !
It’s easier with the seat removed
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Sun 06.10.2019, 19:10

removed the seat and the carpet, and put hands on the job.
took me 5 hours 2 of those i was just staring at the footwell not understanidng what i was supposed to do.
after reading the manual 3 times i finally understood how to remove the joint without the need to remove the steering column.
after that it was mostly strugling with access, im a bit too fat and putting my hands over my head inside the footwell to reach both bolt and nut at the same time is dificult.

either way, i took it out and it was very obvious what was wrong as soon as i had the joint out. new one gone in and i had to fit it twice in order to actually get the steering pointing straight when the wheels are straight but after 2 attempts i finally put everthing back and took the car up and down the street and the steering was very good. in fact. i am pretty sure the steering is now better than when i initially bought the car. so all in all. i am very pleased with the results.
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
91 MR2 Turbo (import) project
94 Celica GT4 (Import)
94 4Runner
98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Rambo » Sun 06.10.2019, 19:36

Well done Tuga. What was wrong with the old joint ?

PS when does the diet start :wink:
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby John_W » Sun 06.10.2019, 19:38

Good result, João.
:smt023

But I’m a bit concerned with you saying
im a bit too fat
as that doesn’t give me much chance of doing the same if I ever need to!
:-D
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby GeoffSmith » Sun 06.10.2019, 20:04

Rambo wrote:… What was wrong with the old joint ?

If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say his problem was a random stiff feeling. Similar to having a faulty power steering pump. But I may be wrong. :twisted:
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby John_W » Sun 06.10.2019, 20:19

Rambo’s got an interest in worn old joints.
But not in random stiff feelings any more.
:twisted:
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Mon 07.10.2019, 20:12

GeoffSmith wrote:
Rambo wrote:… What was wrong with the old joint ?

If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say his problem was a random stiff feeling. Similar to having a faulty power steering pump. But I may be wrong. :twisted:



:lol: :lol: :lol: loved that one

and yes, geoff pretty much got it. the steering wheel was dificult to turn every half turn. (although i only realised the exact circunstances after the fact.)
by hand i was unable to move the U Joint one of the axis and the other axis also required a bit of effort. after the replacement i feel like i got a whole new system in place.
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
91 MR2 Turbo (import) project
94 Celica GT4 (Import)
94 4Runner
98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Blue ass fly » Fri 18.10.2019, 17:44

Tuga2112 wrote:
Kipperozzy wrote:Hello Tuga, have you tried removing the cover to expose the lower UJ and spraying your favourite release fluid on it. If this is rusty or worn maybe it’s sticking a bit , and or some spraying from below up into the well and working the steering with the wheels off the ground. I think it’s needle roller bearings and being exposed rusts especially if not used regularly.
I changed mine last winter and the steering stiffness has gone.
Not the most accessible joint but I thing it’s easier than changing the rack and cheaper

Kipperozzy thanks for the input.
Have not tried that yet.

i was told the exact same thing last night at the west midlands meetup.
im going to see if i can try doing that this weekend.
in the meanwhile i have ordered the defender UJ from ebay,concidering the price, even if i dont need to swap it, its not a big hit on the wallet.



Theres a midlands meet
Where and when do they happen ?
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Re: Part time PAS effort

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 19.10.2019, 11:35

Blue ass fly wrote:Theres a midlands meet
Where and when do they happen ?


Your very welcome to join us next month, just one thing to note is that this is a WEST midlands meetup. (ive noticed your location is set as East)
We meet on the 3rd thursday of every month at the Coach and Horses pub at Weatheroak Hill (south of birmingham)

in the past 4-5? years the december meetup was always an exception to the rule because we do a xmas lunch meal instead.

thats the link to the thread where we organise ourselfs.
https://forum.lotuselancentral.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=23456&sid=0c69fbaf1e349d125a7463124c6bc75f&p=355881#p355965
1991 elan se
1991 elan se project
91 MR2 Turbo (import) project
94 Celica GT4 (Import)
94 4Runner
98 Celica SR

too many projects. not enough sunny days :(
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