battery charger / conditioner

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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Rambo » Mon 18.11.2019, 20:42

dapinky wrote:
Rambo wrote:But isn't the CTEK 0.8 just a "dumb trickle charger " And Dave's Lidl version must be even dumber than that :D


Mark, it appears that you are incorrect on both counts.... and what makes you say that a Lidl version *must* be dumber?.......it has a selection of programs and 'charge levels', so is probably quite bright, really!

Anyway, I've made a definative decision - I'll see what comes up on offer, but keep the Lidls one for now :roll:


All I can say in my defence Officer is that my CTEK 0.8 became rather dumb in the end as it ended up frying the battery and goosing the alternator :?

But I think a parasitic discharge (ooooh, painful !) may have been the culprit
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby clemo » Mon 18.11.2019, 23:32

Still open to options ...

Don't tell Daveiow.
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby dapinky » Fri 22.11.2019, 14:02

dapinky wrote:If anyone sees a good 'Black Friday' deal on either item, please let me know.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-G3500UK-U ... ROKL5A1OLE

Only for the next 11 hours or so........
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Rambo » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:16

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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:18

Rambo wrote:https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/battery-chargers-jump-starters/halfords-maintenance-charger

telling me the store is experiencing errors, was that the intention of your message Mark ?
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Rambo » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:21

No Joao. It was to let folfs know that you could get a charger/conditioner for as low as 25 quid :shock:

www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage- ... ce-charger
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby GeoffSmith » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:40

I love two of the 1 star comments:
"I connected the charger to the battery in the evening, the charging indicator light was lit,I left it for charging overnight. Sadly, in the morning the battery was not charged."
"This charges at a slower rate than my phone charger!. Left connected to my campervan with the fridge on before going away, and the battery died in 1 day. Maybe the wrong application for me, so now replaced with a proper smart charger."
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby dapinky » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:52

Geoff - surely you're not suggesting that the reviewers didn't read the bit about being 750mA - or just that they don't understand it.....

..... either way, it isn't a failure of the unit - just the operator.

(if someone really wants to try a cheapo option, there is a "Made in the PRC" version of a ctek on Amazon for £19.)
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Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Tuga2112 » Sat 23.11.2019, 19:55

dapinky wrote: "Made in the PRC"

does it literally say that ?
i never came across that exact wording on any item i purchased yet
i wonder who will it fool
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby dapinky » Sat 23.11.2019, 20:51

It actually states that it is made in China - on paper it looks okay, but i'd rather buy a recognised brand...... (says the man who currently uses one purchesed from Lidl!)...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AUTOXEL-Mainta ... ep_pep_p_t
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby petezipp » Sun 24.11.2019, 16:35

Bin using a DRAPER plug for over 10 yrs now seems to work great ( fitted a 5a fuse for safety)
Just remember its not a charger just just keeps the battery up , not really for charging a flat battery.
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby daveiow » Sun 24.11.2019, 20:02

Well here I am again, Caitlin is still in I’m a Celebrity......... :)
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Rambo » Mon 25.11.2019, 00:06

Do you mean "I'm a Nonentity" hosted by the very talentless Ant and Dec ?
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby clemo » Mon 25.11.2019, 21:04

dapinky wrote:
dapinky wrote:If anyone sees a good 'Black Friday' deal on either item, please let me know.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-G3500UK-U ... ROKL5A1OLE

Only for the next 11 hours or so........


Bought Friday ( funnily enough ). turned up on Sunday .
Looks good enough . Though the mrs has squirrelled it away till Crimbo.
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby chris.t » Tue 26.11.2019, 06:43

I have never been into Halfords and seen the stack of batteries they have for sale on Cteks. I disconnect my battery and reconnect when needed, always starts first turn.

In the past I have used trickle/battery conditioners and cooked the battery. Never had a problem for years disconnecting, maybe I've just been lucky.
Could the 'Hokey-Cokey' actually be what it's all about?
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby dapinky » Tue 26.11.2019, 11:02

chris.t wrote:I have never been into Halfords and seen the stack of batteries they have for sale on Cteks. I disconnect my battery and reconnect when needed, always starts first turn.

In the past I have used trickle/battery conditioners and cooked the battery. Never had a problem for years disconnecting, maybe I've just been lucky.



Chris,

This makes perfect sense really - a disconnected battery (in good condition, and charged up) will remain in that state for far longer than it's usually left for - which is why ones in Halfords arn't needed to be 'wired up'.....

..... my issues are 2-fold......

1) It is a bit of a faf to disconnect the battery (okay if it's just for the Winter, but the alarm system in mine will flatten a battery in 10-14 days, so there are periods of time during the 'use' months that it can go too flat to start the car)

(2) It loses the radio station pre-sets.

Okay, so (2) may not be a valid reason, and a different alarm system may allow longer periods of dis-use, but that is where I am.

It is far easier to just drive into the garage and attach the wires, knowing all will be good when I come out tomorrow or next year.
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby dapinky » Tue 26.11.2019, 11:03

clemo wrote:
dapinky wrote:
dapinky wrote:If anyone sees a good 'Black Friday' deal on either item, please let me know.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-G3500UK-U ... ROKL5A1OLE

Only for the next 11 hours or so........


Bought Friday ( funnily enough ). turned up on Sunday .
Looks good enough . Though the mrs has squirrelled it away till Crimbo.



Mine came on Saturday.... and was plugged in by Saturday afternoon :D
Dave

Just the one now, but this one's mine! - and it will be finished eventually..... - but also temporary custodian of a project until it is finished enough for Angie to drive it


...oh, and a 2006 Freelander destined for the jungles of The Gambia - 4500 miles across roads, desert and tracks - what could possibly go wrong?
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Tuga2112 » Wed 27.11.2019, 19:27

And back on the topic of Battery conditioners.

I have dabled in this topic multiple times in the past. done some research years ago and some more in the last few days.

Before i start with my HUGE Chemistry/electronics lesson. i just need you guys to understand im a software developer, not an electronics neither a chemistry expert, my knowledge comes from googling about a lot and A level understanding of Chemistry/Physics.
Geoff and Mark are very likely call me out here.

most of the time Lead Batteries lose efficiency because of a chemical reaction refered to as "Sulfation".
"lead batteries" have sulfuric acid and lead "plates" (or mesh) the quality, or capacity of the battery is mostly affected by 2 factors.
1 how strong the sulfuric acis is
2 how much lead surface is available in each plate.

the process of going through cycles causes sulfur crystals to attach to the lead mesh(aka sulfation), which has a double negative effect 1- reduces the surface of lead available for the acid to transfer electrons, and it also reduces the acidity of the acid.
most of you (and note, im already too young to find this "common") will be aware of products like Bat-Aid
products like this try to remove sulfur crystals via chemical reactions, and maintain acidity by adding more sulfur to the water.

Battery Conditioners achieve the same result using a different type of chemical reaction to the BatAid tablets, there are more than 1 type of conditioners. but in a nutshell they use different higher voltage pulses in order to "shock" sulfur crystals into cracking/breaking allowing the sulfur in the crystals to be re-used and make the acid stronger.

theres a fine balance in these systems. as the ideal circunstances to break the sulfur require a warm/hot acid solution inside battery (30 to 50c) and a pretty high voltage. (the higher the voltage the bigger the % of crystals will be broken down. The problem is that higher voltages also cause more heat, and if the battery gets too hot, you end up with the explosions we all fear. (not strictly correct, as explosion can be based on h2 buildup as well, but ill ignore that fact)

Now, when everyone talks about buying a branded conditioner. its worth keeping in mind that for an electronics engineer, creating a pulse high voltage conditioner that works on a frequency and voltage safe enough to ignore increase in temperature of the battery is a doodle.
this is a kit to make your own conditioner for example

If you think your buying a charger AND conditioner piece of kit, you need to be very careful reading the labels. The wording "smart charger" is used to describe "this charger will trickle charge after the battery is full to avoid overcharging" while a real battery charger and conditioner circuit will be trickle charging on higher voltages than 14-15v of a normal charger to break the sulfur crystals.

all in all. I have purchased 2 batteries in the past 12 years.
one was to replace the 4runner battery that build up a bulge in the casing and was no longer safe to recondition
the other was pieced by a headlamp adjustment bolt when i had an accident and the front of my car was slightly bent.

my approach to batteries is this.
unplug if you know your not going to touch the car for a long period of time.
if the battery needs charging because of some reason, use a smart charger. that will drain it down and recharge it multiple times (mine does up to 5 cycles) and after the 5th cycle i always plug my battery conditioner to the battery for a week, then i recharge the battery up just onse.

this is my smart charger. its not a very expensive charger (cost me 22 quid few years back). i came across this in a rc car enthusiasts forum, its versatile (works for Lipo, NiMH and lead) but requires you to know what your doing to set it up correctly. it does allow an extremely wide range of uses (from 2 to 24v charging), and also has the option to perform up to 5 charge cicles.
the battery desulfator I use set me back close to 30 quid, and came from spain, the seller no longer sells it, but it looks similar to this

i hope this information is usefull.
YES im still preaching to not use trickle chargers for your batteries, the longer you leave that machine plugged next to your car, the higher is your risk of something going wrong and causing sparks, either in the battery, or the charger. The safest option is to unplug and remove the battery whenever you dont expect to use the elan for a long period.
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby Rambo » Wed 27.11.2019, 21:32

Well thought and reasoned Joao. And I tend to agree with you. Having cooked a battery and alternator using a battery conditioner I prefer to disconnect long term but I have a CTEK 3.8 which I use for short periods on both M100's
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Re: battery charger / conditioner

Postby GeoffSmith » Thu 28.11.2019, 13:03

Rambo wrote:… Having cooked a battery and alternator using a battery conditioner …

Not sure how that's possible unless the battery was disconnected or did they die at the same time?
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