Rosie's return to glory

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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Fri 03.07.2020, 20:05

Goopy to GPS
When I got the car, you could notice there were sticky stains on the fascia and upon closer inspection, lots of the interior trim pieces were loose. There was some sort of goopy mastic that was used to hold/bond many of the anchor points onto the fascia trim and other bits and bobs, but after 20 years of sitting in the sun of over 100 degree summers, has melted and made a general mess of the interior. It's sticky and tacky, but not strong enough to hold those anchors points any more, so just generally annoying. In my quest to restore Rosie, I've been trying to clean it up and fix the trim anchor points so things stay together too and I made some progress, and discoveries when working on the center console.
You can see how goopy it was, just dribs and drabs everywhere.
Image
I tried lots of things to clean it, but so far baby wipes have worked the best.

In order to clean the fascia and the vents, I took parts out to clean them. In the FED version we have a blank for what I imagine is the space for the rear fog lights control, and it looks like there is some wiring in place. What was really confusing me though is the wiring behind one of the blanks in the 'double blank' slot... :?
Image

I guess there was also some holdover from the Ford Cortina partnership? :smt017
Image

With the majority of the mastic removed, and the vents cleaned out, I was able to prep for epoxying some of the anchor points back to hold the console fascia in place.
ready4epoxy.jpg


And the result is that now the fascia is actually held back in place, flush with the dash, and I've at least gotten rid of the visible glue (still need to spruce it back up, but it is a start). And the fun bit is that while I love and am blown away by Elanlover's fascia remodel and GPS/infotainment integration upgrade, I had a slightly lower budget for comfort improvements right now. So my interim solution is that for $10 on Amazon I found a phone holder that normally clips on a vent. I was able to friction fit the vent clip 'base' into the gap for one of the switch blanks and with all my surplus HDPE lying around (yay tank fuel tank repair) I was able to easily make a custom blank cover to hide it. Now I have a phone mount that sits far enough back that my hand doesn't hit it during gear change, and I can always revert back to stock if something better comes along.
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Next upgrade would be to think about a dedicated power supply lead instead of a cigar lighter insert. But maybe by 2022 when I have time to get around to it, everything will be inductive charging anyway that it will be one less wire to worry about. :smt020
-Matt N
'91 FED M100 -rolling resto

...and come to Salt Lake City, for the very first truly national Lotus Car Club event for the USA: LUG September 24-28, 2026
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Mon 10.08.2020, 20:06

Odds and ends (and beginnings)
No dramatic progress, just moving ahead on all the things, troubleshooting and finding new things along the way.

Put the interior back together, which required cleaning and re-glueing just about every trim piece (Gorilla Glue FTW). Clean, treated, and patched all the leather to some extent too. Trying to keep it together long enough until I finish everything else.
Image

Got help here to finish my rear brake job which was great, but discovered a weeping Brake Proportioning Valve in the process. Going to try and attempt the rebuild route with getting some new o-rings/seals as I've seen some threads past on that. Start there and then replace if that doesn't work. Might need a new Master Cylinder too, but I'll try bleeding, bleeding, bleeding again after working on these valves to see if that returns firmness to the pedal first.
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Got my fuel injectors cleaned and returned from the shop. Doesn't look like they were too bad before, but every little bit helps.
Replaced the fuel pressure regulator too, which was leaking in the process.
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Following that compression test I got a couple new toys and poked around a bit more to see what's up. Played doctor with my new endoscope, which was cool, but I didn't see any obvious signs of damage (like a burnt valve).
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Tried to get my shiny new ElanScan connector to tell me something, but it wouldn't talk to Mr. ECU (Maybe it doesn't understand Rosie's southern drawl).
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Played around with some cheapskate 'leakdown' testing and got some cool submarine sounds along the way, but couldn't hear any leaks at TDC.


But.. with oil on spark plugs; dropping coolant level with no visible leaks, and bubbles in the coolant tank within a couple mins of startup it's time to pull the engine and replace the headgasket. So I started this weekend with draining the fluids; time to Buckle-up!
Image
-Matt N
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Mon 10.08.2020, 21:07

The vents are from a Yugoslavian (or somewhere around there) Ford truck. I couldn't find the posting from a long time ago.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Tue 11.08.2020, 02:29

TorqueHorse wrote:Odds and ends (and beginnings)


Got help here to finish my rear brake job which was great, but discovered a weeping Brake Proportioning Valve in the process. Going to try and attempt the rebuild route with getting some new o-rings/seals as I've seen some threads past on that. Start there and then replace if that doesn't work. Might need a new Master Cylinder too, but I'll try bleeding, bleeding, bleeding again after working on these valves to see if that returns firmness to the pedal first.


I also have a leaking brake proportioning valve, i know the wiki shows the dimensions , but has anyone actually sourced or purchased the two 'O' rings (DOT fluid compatible) ????? If so i would appreciate a nudge in the right direction. It appears that as the 'O" rings age the fluid can pass by the ring and will leak out of the rear threads as there is no seal on the screwed aft section of the valve. A thin copper washer would seal it but that's not really the correct way to go, with the copper washer moving the valve rearward by 0.9mm.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Rambo » Tue 11.08.2020, 09:14

I think Jim (Muley) has done some work on proportioning valves in the last year or so. I think he eventually replaced them

Also, I'm fairly sure Dapinky has some useful info re. prop. valves

Some other info here....viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23606&p=353877&hilit=Proportioning+valves#p353877
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Tue 11.08.2020, 21:18

Thanks Rambo,
I did read all the archived proportioning valves threads and have mine apart in my sweaty little hands right now. The way the valve works is very simple and the only item that should deteriorate with age are the two 'O' rings, and this becomes evident by fluid leaking from the threads of the rear section (the front section has a seal, the rear doesn't) It is possible that the valve seat could be gummed up if brake fluid replacement maintenance hasn't taken place, but that can be flushed clean. So, simple one would think to buy the two 'O' rings, and i am hoping its a case of some determined detective work to find some that are DOT compatible. John (BCN) and i are searching for them right now but it should be noted the WIKI is wrong, obviously a misread, as the ID of the larger 'O' ring is way off (i get 8.825mm but 9 will do) NOT 7.1 as shown (this is clearly an error as the large landing is 9.1mm) The cross section is 1.8 to 1.9 (comes in at 1.8 but has been in the valve for 30 years!)

Colin
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Rambo » Tue 11.08.2020, 21:48

Colin - have you tried an i/net search along the lines of "is viton or nitrile DOT sensitive/compatible" ?

Just a thought.....
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Tue 11.08.2020, 22:09

Maybe this chart will help?
O-Ring Chemical Compatibility Chart Marco Rubber.JPG
Click for larger view
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Rambo » Tue 11.08.2020, 22:12

:smt023 BCN

Looks like Viton's out
Last edited by Rambo on Tue 11.08.2020, 22:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Tue 11.08.2020, 22:19

Yup,
Did that already, with mixed results as a lot of the info is old and materials have changed along with fluids. This one is really good:
https://www.sealanddesign.com/page/fluid-compatibility

but....... it states VITON is NOT compatible, while other sites say: VITON is incompatible with petroleum (oil and gasoline), but it is compatible with alcohols (ethanol, methanol, and nitromethane), water, coolants (both ethylene and propylene glycol), and glycol-based brake fluid ....and as DOT 3 is glycol based, its a contradiction between the two.

I'm just heading downtown to a supplier who sells all the oil/gas/chemical industrial fittings and O rings to see what they have.

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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Tue 11.08.2020, 22:34

Looks like EPDM is the way to go
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/docum ... =TECH00147
I don't know all the dims for the o-rings, but they have a decent selection at McMaster Carr. Here is one with the ID of 8.9mm
https://www.mcmaster.com/9557k438
-Matt N
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Rambo » Tue 11.08.2020, 22:55

Looks like it is brake fluid resistant
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Wed 12.08.2020, 01:16

TorqueHorse wrote:Looks like EPDM is the way to go
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/docum ... =TECH00147
I don't know all the dims for the o-rings, but they have a decent selection at McMaster Carr. Here is one with the ID of 8.9mm
https://www.mcmaster.com/9557k438


EDIT: Good find on that one (the LARGER of the two) and i believe it will work.
Last edited by esprit888 on Wed 12.08.2020, 17:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Wed 12.08.2020, 15:20

Sweet! Well they come in bags of 90, so cheapest group buy yet at 7 cents each? ;)
-Matt N
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby Brit-Car-Nut » Wed 12.08.2020, 15:25

You have to add postage from Atlanta GA USA to Vancouver BC Canada, so the total cost will be a bit higher.
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Wed 12.08.2020, 17:21

Brit-Car-Nut wrote:You have to add postage from Atlanta GA USA to Vancouver BC Canada, so the total cost will be a bit higher.


I'll take 10 :lol: but that only solves the larger ring, what about the smaller one?
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Wed 12.08.2020, 18:18

I'm just going off the wiki, you're the one with the actual reference pieces in hand ;), but doesn't this one fit the bill?
https://www.mcmaster.com/9557K458/

What about the sealing ring? Do we need to source that too, or do you think they are salvageable?
-Matt N
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby esprit888 » Wed 12.08.2020, 20:27

Its very (very) close and comes in at 3.683 (landing is 3.825) and it has a slightly thinner CS (1.778) the total OD is 7.239 and as best I can read on a 30 year old O ring the OD of the smaller ring is 7.74, it may be worth a try and then stick it on a rolling road to test its efficacy but it would appear at first glance to be (literally) a hair too small on the OD. It should not be necessary to split the front section of the valve so the seal should not need replacing. Now this has obvioulsy been tried before and there are several threads, this one in particular ( https://forum.lotuselancentral.com/view ... =41&t=8489 ) So i will just say again that any changes or repairs to the brake proportioning valve can result in serious injury and are done at your own risk!. That being said the valve itself is not being altered or modified in any way (it cant be, its inside the sleave and inaccessible, it is only the sealing O rings that stop fluid from leaking into the spring chamber that are being replaced.

A.jpg

B.jpg

C.jpg

D.jpg

E.jpg
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby TorqueHorse » Wed 12.08.2020, 22:05

Cool! Well I pulled the trigger and ordered them. Says they will get to me on Friday and I can forward on some to you (PM me deets). I'm going to be swamped with my head gasket adventure for a while though. Want to test them out first, for free, and report back? ;)
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Re: Rosie's return to glory

Postby RonR » Wed 12.08.2020, 23:09

Another lock-down pastime for me was trying to calculate the prop valve O-ring sizes.
I used the O-ring calculator Here

Here's what I came up with for what it's worth:
Prop Valve Oring calcs.jpg
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