Front Brake Replacement FOUND

[Peter]

Not sure this helps you guys but heres a link to a web site that has an electronic catalogue of the disces and pads with lists of applications for each, I thought its pretty good at Identifying differences and as the thread above where pads are the same but not necessarily calipers ie Vented non vented also the VW G60 discs have very slight difference in offset. <br>Got set of standard pads for £8.23 based on info (stop gap 'till pay day and budget for upgrade)<br>http://www.national-auto.co.uk/<br><br>Pete

[clemo]

now im confused having just read everything.<br>without upgrades an everything else , what is our standard calipers off??<br>ps, have noted all and will try to get down local old style scrappy where you can borrow everything in yhe bottom of ya toolbox, loads of vauxhall, just to add some of my own N/A findings could these be the same as a DAEWOO ESPARROW... many of my electrical bits are and they ran at the same time based on GM parts.<br>will look into it.<br>clemo

[DeeAitch]

Clemo, Glad you are now back on the road! <br>General concensus suggests the caliper is from some obscure French Nova or something. Disks are definitely any Astra 16V / GTE (Vented that is) from that period but it seems Astra Calipers result in a 5mm overhang of the pad.<br>Dimitris seems to have found a solution in Astra GSI but it is not clear yet which part Number - Dimitris, do you know which model year? From what I have seen it would seem the caliper design changed circa '98.<br>ElanScanMan is trying Astra 16V soon. <br>FWIW I am trying Cavalier 2.0 / Turbo (£20 the pair, local scrappy checks toolbox bottoms and chops of those important bits if he is not 'appy!) this weekend, will post results soon!<br>From what I have researched Astra / Cavalier (+ early Vectra) / Calibra Calipers are common but I'm not sure if the carriers are. The PCD of the mounting bolts seems to be the problem.<br>If I was flush I would Defo go the HI-Spec route and save all the agro. Guaranteed results and they look great. <br><br>Dave [smiley=moon.gif]

[Dimitris_GR]

Front calipers are no doubt from Opel Corsa "A".<br>What Opel suggests for an upgrade for Corsa's (Nova) brakes are Astra GSi's calipers, or Calibra 2.0 (Cavalier) (N/A, -NOT TURBO-), which are the same. Calibra (Cavalier) Turbo uses different calipers!<br>I currently use the above calipers and I am fully satisfied!<br>The pads DO NOT exceed the disks and the scheme finally locks the wheels at will and it is up to the driver to apply the proper power. As I previously mentioned, the pads I currently use are probably the worst one could fit (from the previous owner) and they get tired easily.<br><br>PS<br>I am really sorry, but I cannot find any more clues at the moment.

[DeeAitch]

OK, finally tried the ATE calipers today. The ones I used are from a 2.0 Vectra (Early model with 4 stud wheel fitting, really a Cavalier). They bolt on fine but.....! Yes, the pad overhangs the disk!<br>Actually it only overhangs by 2mm. the standard pads sit 3mm inside the disk O.D. so we are back to the "5mm overhang" of legend, guess it would keep the O.D. of the disk nice and shiny tho'!<br>Also the disks on my car did not sit centrally in the carrier, if they had been new they would have been 0.5 from contact. To space them correctly required 1.5mm spacers. All fittings are the same, even the mounting bolts are the same length.<br><br>Alan, I guess this may mean you require 4.5mm spacers + longer bolts if you go the Clio route.<br><br>Dimitris, we need to know the model year your GSI's came from!<br><br>Out of interest the sliders were perfect, looks like they have been replaced recently, they just don't work! (I bought the car in February this year, so I guess for the MOT as the calipers also look in great nick. Pads were almost new when I picked it up), <br><br>£20 in the interests of science, oh well it was fun!

[ESM]

Dave,<br><br>Have you got 256 or 258mm discs? If they're 256mm then getting hold of some ATE 258mm bits would get you 1mm more back...

[DeeAitch]

Did not check, will pull one this weekend and measure it. What if I already have 258!! Mine were quite rusty on the OD so will probably lose 1~2mm scrapping that off, then I may have 254 - oh 5hit!<br>Checking all the info I have is confusing. Most list Lotus and all Vauxhall (Astra, Cavalier, Calibra etc) as 256mm. I even have EBC discs listed as 256 & 258. Maybe I will go in to my freindly dealer and measure some - If I can find a friendly one that is.<br>However as you say 258 would still result in 1mm overhang, probably not a real problem except if the disc is not concentric you may feel it thro' the pedal. <br>Even if we find the people machining the 256 / 258 and get them left oversize we will have a problem with re supply, same with any "one offs". Much better to find a "stock" solution.<br>

[Peter]

In the National Brakes parts list the disc for the 4 stud vectra is same as Elan, astra etc, but there is a selection of pads listed for the various calipers (havent found parts list for calipers yet) and the Astra is listed as different pads to vectra therefore I suspect one of the 3 types of calipers (some with different pad area)used on astras on the same disc's is the combination Dimitris has just haven't figured which one. ???<br><br>Pete

[ESM]

Peter,<br><br>I went some distance down that line of thought but I gave it up. The reason I stopped is that the height between the mounting position (tabs at each side) and the edge of the pad that would sit at the edge of the disc appeared, in all the pads I considered anyway, to be constant. The depth, width & spring position of the pad varied but the one parameter I wanted to see change remained the same. My research, however, was not exhaustive.

[Peter]

Yea I guessed as much but just can't see how Dimitris has done it.<br><br>Pete

[Kjeld]

Great thread fellas. Reads like a novel, full of highs and lows. But since I hate these brakes so much, I hope someone figures it out and posts a manufacturer and part#! It would be fun, if not very fruitful, to watch the look on the part guy's face when I ask for a  Vauxhall or Opel model's brake caliper.

[DeeAitch]

Can you believe it! After checking the ATE calpers - see above - putting everything back together and I get an intermittent "check engine" light. Have put 6000 miles on this car without a hitch and now this - didn't know the brakes were connected to the ECU! 'er indoors says just jack up the other side and all will be well! <br>Guess it is time for the paper clip (or Elanscan if I can beg a laptop and interface).<br>And now a theory for you all to mull over:<br>My Elans calipers have 47mm Dia pistons - is this standard?<br>To my knowledge Astra and ATE calipers have Dia 52 pistons.<br>Therefore if we fit ATE we get 22% more braking force for a given pedal pressure - great, that's another reason why they are worth getting to fit!<br>However if Astraman et al were able to fit "Lotus" calipers he would get 18% LESS force, not a good idea.<br>Therefore could it be that the calipers are deliberately designed so that it is not possible to fit the 47mm caliper to cars designed for 52mm pistons?<br>If this is true we would all be happy (er) if only Lotus had decided not to make "ABS" standard!

[Doug]

[quote author=Dave link=board=suspension;num=1057127333;start=60#71 date=08/31/03 at 12:15:38]If this is true we would all be happy (er) if only Lotus had decided not to make "ABS" standard![/quote]<br>ABS  ??? <br>Not in any Elan I know of [smiley=headscratch.gif]

[Jon]

<br>No, the Elans never had ABS even as an option since it weights about 18Kg and they were trying to keep the weight down.

[DeeAitch]

"If this is true we would all be happy (er) if only Lotus had decided not to make "ABS" standard! "<br>Just a joke boys! Refering to the fact that it is not possible to lock the brakes with standard calipers, therefore dedicated ABS was never required.

[Darren]

My brakes lock  [smiley=surprised.gif].<br><br>I have stock calipers (all reconditioned), EBC Slotted/drilled discs, Greenstuff pads and braided hoses.<br><br>Darren<br>~~~~~

[m100mac]

I have stock calipers, stock lines, green stuff pads and stock discs. ( half a cylinder of 5.1 fluid ) and i too can lock my stock setup. <br>I have muscles in my right leg equivalent to Geoff Capes.<br><br>No but seroiusly, with lots of pedal effort i can at will lock my brakes in the dry and with relatively good tyres.<br><br>Bleed Bleed and bleed again. Thats my motto.  - oh and replace the master cylinder cap afterwards :-[

[DeeAitch]

Checked my discs today and they are 256mm Dia. Interestingly (and obvious now that I think about it) the pad only overhangs 2mm at the centre. At the outer edge it is only 1mm. Therefore if I can source 258mm discs the pads will sit right on the edge, avoiding that rusty look! I'm not too bothered about the centre overhang, the pad is cutaway there anyway.<br>I also plan to check out Calibra turbo / Omega pads (Ferodo FDB901) as these have a smaller I.D. than the Cavalier ones I have, giving a greater swept area. They are also designed for a larger disk dia. so maybe they will not overhang.

[Mike_H]

I have found  this web site   www.apec-braking.co.uk  . If you log on and click on SIZE  then VENTED DISCS  you then key in the size of disc you are after - 256 dia , 41 hieght , 60 centre dia , 4 mounting holes,  then select ALL MANUFACTURERS  it will bring up a list of discs and one of them is - 260 dia , 41 hieght ,60 centre , 4 stud, <br>this disc is of a  2000yr  Corsa 1.8 Sri  . This could be just what we are looking for . <br><br>Mike.<br>

[DeeAitch]

I'm off to Halfords for a look see!