Outboard CV joints

[Giniw]

Hi Everyone,
I have had some annoying vibrations when I'm accelerating with the Elan for quite a long while, and as now we have a reference for tripods thanks to RonR viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28405, I have removed the driveshafts for inspection, and was prepared to work on the inboard ones (ie change the tripods, that I have had in a box for quite a while )
As the outboard boots are a bit worn, I thought it was the right time to change the outboard boots.

Now that the outboards boots are removed, I am surprised that there is so much free play in the movement of the outboard joints?!
I had changed the boots of the Elan already some years ago, and also boots & joints on another car and I can't remember there was free play like this?! (even with the bad ones from the other car, who used to do the typical clunk sound when turning hard at low speed)

Anyway, does this look normal to you guys? Both sides do the same, but it's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery suspicious to me, I would say my outer CV joints are shot?!
In my memory, it's normally a tight & smooth movement with no free play at all — not free play and then tight(ish) movement of the joint?!

By the way, the free play is really in the joint, it's tight on the shaft splines.
And it has the same amount of play in any direction, on the video it follows the gravity, but I could have turned it at any random angle.

Ihave just posted the same question on TLF and posted the video there directly, so please have a look there for the video that shows the amount of free play
https://forums.thelotusforums.com/topic ... -cv-joint/

Thanks in advance!

[Tuga2112]

in all my ignorance... I wouldnt not give it a second thoguht. I would clean up and pack it with grease.

if there was play in the rotation of the wheel motion, thats when i would be worried.

guess soon I will find out i would be wrong...

[Giniw]

Well I may do that, not too sure, it's not that cheap but at least the outboard joints are still available
Also if I could avoid doing the job 2 times this would be nice

By the way, I had some bad experience with noname CV rubber boots, the rubber, as very often with noname rubber does not last long at all.
For example, my daily had a worn outboard CV joint a while ago (it's a cheap 30 years old car ) so I replaced it it with a cheap CV joint.
A little later, I noticed an outboard CV joint boot had split and so I assumed it was from the 30 years old CV joint, so I ordered a new outboard CV joint again (it made a little bit of noise).

Then I realised the split boot was actually from the side I had changed a couple of years earlier, the 30 years old one on the other side was still OK
The interesting part was, when I had changed the outboard CV joint, I had also changed the boot on the inboard joint, just as preventive maintenance. And this one was a SKF boot.
The fact is, the SKF inner boot was still looking like new, while the noname outboard one was already split.
=> I ordered SKF boots for this car
Never, ever go for cheap rubber parts, it's always a lost of time & money.

Anyway, the point is, I tried to find SFK boots for the Elan.
I have not installed them yet, so I will have to confirm they fit well, but just in case, I ordered these:
- Inboard: VKJP6003, https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/uk/e ... s/VKJP6003 (~16.20€ on amazon for instance https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00B9BEWAI)
- Outboard: VKJP1156, https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/uk/e ... s/VKJP1156 (~12.62€ on amazon https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00F41UKNM)

The inboard one has an usual shape but I reckon the plastic washer should fit, and I like the rubber bellow is not very large as there is no point having much room in it, it's better to have the grease stay in the tulip near the tripod.
As I said, I can't confirm for sure they fit, as I haven't installed them but I'm 99% sure they will fit nicely, and 100% sure the rubber will last maaaaany years.
PS: the nut provided with the boot I ordered for inboard side won't fit the shaft unfortunately (this would have been a nice bonus )

[Fredjohn]

Never, ever go for cheap rubber parts, it's always a lost of time & money.

Couldn't agree more. I've got 12 kids.

[Giniw]

Never, ever go for cheap rubber parts, it's always a lost of time & money.

Couldn't agree more. I've got 12 kids.

hahahaha, this is specifically why I added the word "parts" instead of just "cheap rubber"

Do you reckon the joint looks shot?
On second thought I should have cleaned it to have a proper look at the parts, maybe it's obvious it's a goner.

[RonR]

Never, ever go for cheap rubber parts, it's always a lost of time & money.

Now this is a timely thread!

I've just noticed the CV boots I fitted less than a year ago have deteriorated to the point of splattering grease all over my newly refurbished suspension & brakes, so it's another suspension strip-down for me!

CV-Boot.jpg

Just what I needed just before CC and YLD! - They weren't Epay specials either, but from a Lotus specialist.

Please report back on whether the SKF items fit Gini.

[Steve A]

That's not good, Please name and shame

[Simon_P]

There is lots of rotational play in the driveshafts as the splines are not a tight fit.

CV joints are easily good for 100k miles as long as there is grease and no dirt.

The easiest way to find out if that CV joint is any good is to take it apart - contact patches should be lightly polished the windows in the cage should show only light wear.

You will need to take it apart to clean it properly.

[Giniw]

Never, ever go for cheap rubber parts, it's always a lost of time & money.

CV-Boot.jpg

Just what I needed just before CC and YLD! - They weren't Epay specials either, but from a Lotus specialist.

Typical of a bad rubber

Please report back on whether the SKF items fit Gini.

Sure, I probably won't be able to check before this weekend though (I was on a trip this weekend so did not make anything on the car)

[Giniw]

That's not good, Please name and shame

The issue is not really the seller, it's a real problem nobody will do normal (decent) rubber parts for classics, I wonder what is so difficult ... We end up with bad aftermarket parts that will deteriorate before the car is finished ... (my father had used some small rubber washers to install headlights repeaters and they were wrong before the car went out of the garage, a few months later. The issue is there was no alternative, hence why in my case I tried to source branded boots for the Elan)

[Giniw]

There is lots of rotational play in the driveshafts as the splines are not a tight fit.

CV joints are easily good for 100k miles as long as there is grease and no dirt.

The easiest way to find out if that CV joint is any good is to take it apart - contact patches should be lightly polished the windows in the cage should show only light wear.

You will need to take it apart to clean it properly.

Yes I will have to do this, thanks! (mines are a bit less than 100k km)

[Steve A]

That's not good, Please name and shame

The issue is not really the seller, it's a real problem nobody will do normal (decent) rubber parts for classics, I wonder what is so difficult ... We end up with bad aftermarket parts that will deteriorate before the car is finished ... (my father had used some small rubber washers to install headlights repeaters and they were wrong before the car went out of the garage, a few months later. The issue is there was no alternative, hence why in my case I tried to source branded boots for the Elan)

That would very much depend on where the seller sourced the parts from, it could be a case of putting profit before quality ?
I doubt they all get them from the same place.
If I had changed any part of my car and it failed before it should have, I would be straight on the phone to whoever supplied the part.
Those gators are clearly not fit for purpose and should be replaced free of charge at the very least ! Not only have they failed, but they could cause the CV joint to fail prematurely.
It would be nice to know who supplied these faulty parts, as there maybe others who have bought gators from the same supplier, who have fitted them or are about to.

[RonR]

Well I went ahead and got myself some of the SKF VKJP1156 boots and fitted them over the weekend.
They're around twice as thick as the knackered ones and the rubber feels flexible enough.
They fit BUT...
They're just a little over sized and don't 'stretch' over the CVs or shafts as the originals did. The metal rings supplied didn't adjust down to our CV size, but as I'm in a fix ATM two sets of strong cable ties were used instead and (fingers crossed) they appear to be doing the job.

[Tuga2112]

two sets of strong cable ties were used instead and (fingers crossed) they appear to be doing the job.

nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution.

with that in mind... i have recently found out one of my cars had that instalation.. i cant remember which one. but its been there for many many years and its fine. although not recomended. cable ties definitely can do an adequate job

[dapinky]

Likewise, I have tried fitting them with lock wire and cable ties - the ties seem to work best (if the proper clips won't work).

[Steve A]

I've just noticed that I have a slight leak on one of my boots, it's not split, it's just seeping from the end against the shaft, probably the grease breaking down so it could do with a refresh.
My dilemma is, I have a spare boot, but also bought from PNM, do I like Ron use it and then then have to do it all again a year later
or just go for the SKF boots ?

[Tuga2112]

My dilemma is, I have a spare boot, but also bought from PNM, do I like Ron use it and then then have to do it all again a year later
or just go for the SKF boots ?

theres no harm in going there twice.

personally every year i always lift the front and move about the top ball joint bolts.. just to make sure they dont seize up..
its very frustrating then doing something else and then i have to spend another £XX plus waiting for the delivery. when the joint is completely fine

[Steve A]

My dilemma is, I have a spare boot, but also bought from PNM, do I like Ron use it and then then have to do it all again a year later
or just go for the SKF boots ?

theres no harm in going there twice.

I'm more of a "Do it once, do it properly" kind of guy

[Tuga2112]

I'm more of a "Do it once, do it properly" kind of guy

i try that when possible... but budget is a constant constraint sometimes its about availability instead..

[Steve A]

Seeings how Ron has had problems with his PNM boot after only one year
I was more than reluctant to fit the PNM boot I had previously purchased.
So I ordered a pair of boots from SJ's just to see if they were any different.
I can't give you a definitive answer because I haven't fitted the SJ's boot, and used them for a year,
but having seen Ron's photo, I know which boot I would use ?
The grease supplied with the SJ boots is from Febi Bilstein so I would suspect that is where they source the boots.