ESM Chips - Performance & discussion

[ESM]

John,<br><br>Can't argue with your point re 0-60mph but given the noise on the Elan VSS I would say you can't measure the 0-60 to any great precision. This is why a dyno, which can intrinsically  measure power with more precision, is the thing to tell us what is actually happening. I can send you another couple of chips - how about an updated Kilimanjaro map and an Everest. (both with standard fuel mapping).<br><br>Re the difference in the maps - there aren't aren't massive differences between any of them - its only 0.1bar between the Kilimanjao and the Everest after all. The difference between the K2 and the Everest is that if you take 3000RPM as a normal shift point one is going for 0.8 and the other 0.7bar at that point. Its subtle but since no-one has asked for a K2 anyway- its something of an academic point I would put 0.9bar all across with the Everest but I don't think the turbo can hack it..

[John_W]

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=60#60 date=08/22/04 at 13:50:33]I can send you another couple of chips - how about an updated Kilimanjaro map and an Everest. (both with standard fuel mapping). [/quote]<br>Alan,<br>OK, if those are the ones you want the data on, please send them. I'll send them back when I've done the test. <br><br>I've ordered a ZIF socket thing, but can you tell me how it should be fitted to facilitate the changeover of chips? ie the Kilimanjaro you sent me was already fitted into an adaptor card, and I don't see how the ZIF socket will fit into that card in place of the Kilimanjaro chip as the pins would seem to be in an "in-line" configuration rather than set in two rows. <br><br>When explaining, please remember that the only internal computer surgery I've done is fitting new memory to a Mac and fitting the Kilimanjaro to the ECU. (For PC internals I prefer to use a fire axe.) <br><br>By the way I still have that spare ECU I bought at Donington. Would that help in the swapping of chips?<br><br>John  

[ESM]

John,<br><br>The pins are, or least I hope they are, in two rows. The specs for the socket gives a row spacing anyway. The ZIF socket should plug straight into the normal chip socket on the adapter card and make insertion and removal of chips a simple matter of moving a lever. Be sure and note which side the notch at the end of the chip goes on - it only works one way round (plugging it in the wrong way round doesn't break it - don't ask me how I know). I suggest you install the adapter card, complete with ZIF, in the ECU before you go to the dyno. You'll find the metal end cover won't go back on because the ZIF + chip is too tall but it doesn't hurt in the short term - and you'd need to leave it off for fast access anyway.<br><br>The spare ECU won't help especially. Its just nice to have around.<br><br>Alan

[John_W]

Just adding some more fat to the fire…   ::)<br><br>The graphs below show a comparison of a 0-60 run from an S2 I know with one of the previously-posted runs from my SE. <br><br>The cars differ in the following respects:<br>SE : Kilimanjaro chip (0.8 bar), standard size baffled exhaust (no cat), K & N air filter, dump valve.<br>S2: MBC (0.85 bar), 2.25" exhaust (no cats), K & N air filter, dump valve (no FCD).<br><br>They  show some interesting effects and trends, however because there are several differences between the cars, it is not possible to isolate how much of the performance difference is due to which variable.<br><br>Some observations are:<br>1) The S2 accelerates faster than my SE, for several reasons: <br>    a) S2 got away faster by using revs before dropping the clutch, and continues to use higher revs.<br>    b) S2's boost is higher and comes in more suddenly ie brutally (injector pulse width behaves correspondingly)<br>    c) S2 exhaust is bigger and freer-flowing.<br>2) Air/fuel ratio curves show pretty similar values.<br>3) BIG power difference indicated. Dyno testing needed to find out how much is due to the exhaust.<br>4) Power vs RPM graphs messy (my fault) but show SE to have better power to 3500, then huge leap in S2 power (possibly due to better breathing exhaust).<br><br>Lots of graphs, I'm afraid, but I find all this fascinating.<br><br>John <br><br>Edited 25th Aug to protect the names of the guilty.  8)<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>  

[ESM]

Certainly makes the exhaust look a good candidate for the performance choker. <br><br>Although IMHO the SE power figures look a bit lower than they should be even with a stock exhaust. If you go back a couple of pages I was getting something around 150BHP with a Kili chip and a stock exhaust (albeit with a higher a/f ratio but still 0.8bar max).<br><br>Well I say a stock exhaust, its actually a Paul Matty sourced 'stainless' 2" system. The stock system has a constriction in the silencer box (I've seen an evicerated example) so my system will be a bit more free flowing than it.

[ESM]

Here's some data RobC sent me when he was testing his MBC/FCD setup. The black line is stock, the blue MBC and no FCD and the purple MBC+FCD. <br><br><br><br>Unambiguously more boost - can't see so much happening speed/power wise though. The powers are similar to John's above... <br><br>I'm coming round to the exhaust theory. This guy I know in the exhaust trade reckons a bigger bore exhaust is worth big gains at high RPM and who am I to argue?

[Andrew_Ennis]

Some thoughts,<br><br>When i got the new Elan (Blue one) the performance was really poor, actually on elanscan 78HP max!!!. The base timing was well out, this improved things a bit to 90hp.<br><br>I then fitted the MBC and started to play. It appeared the waste gate was stuck open or the BCV was not working, as the Boost would not rise above 0.4 bar.<br><br>When running elanscan the boost was very slow to pick up (2-3sec) and was almost linear with RPM rather than throttle position. I actually opened the MBC fully i.e wastegate not working at all and still the boost was limited to 0.4 - 0.5 bar. Also the engine could not rev beyond 6000rpm, it just flattened out.<br><br>I scheduled the car for fitting of the 2.25" exhaust. This involves the removal of the Pre Cat internals and the main cat then 2.25" all through with a sports silencer.<br><br>I asked on the condition of the pre cat and was told it was choked. <br><br>The car now has fantastic performance (as seen by john_w's graphs) and the turbo lag is completely gone. The same effect was noticed when i had this exhaust on my previous elan (Green one - RIP!!) using just the MBC with a stock exhaust gave very little additional performance gain, although the boost would rise higher than stock. <br><br>I think a point to remember is if the exhaust is creating a high back pressure then the gas left in the cylinder after the exhaust valve has closed will be at this pressure and expand on the next stroke. This will effectively reduce the relative pressure of the boost. The remaining exhaust gasses will also reduce the combustion efficiency, reducing combustion temps and peak pressures. Hence less power for the same boost pressure.<br><br>In discussion with the exhaust manufacturer they are some basic rule of thumb in exhaust regarding Dia vs HP. This is per exhaust pipe. (remember this is a very rough guide)<br> <br>1.75" upto approx 175BHP<br>2.00" upto approx 200BHP<br>2.25" upto approx 225BHP<br>2.50" upto approx 250BHP<br><br>I have looked at various cars Porsche 911, BMW M3 M5, Ferrari 355, and it looks about right. <br>

[ESM]

The S2 development is just about done. A bit more proving time with the latest K2 chip  - overboost might still be an issue - and I'll release. The data looks promising:<br><br><br><br>The boost is holding up much better now I've got it under control on the way up through the revs (had to feed in the boost a bit later than in the SE). The power looks pretty respectable in spite of two catalysts and a 2" exhaust - I'd guestimate a peak of 130+BHP at the wheels based on this log.<br><br>Tests on the other S2 test bed which has a large bore exhaust. showed significantly less power. Suggesting that the car has some problem (base timing?) that is preventing the power gains from being realised.<br><br>So I reckon the magnitude of the large bore exhaust effect is up in the air again - its certainly not the only possible reason for a lack of improvement following chipping...

[John_W]

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=60#67 date=08/25/04 at 14:38:19]The S2 development is just about done. A bit more proving time with the latest K2 chip  - overboost might still be an issue - and I'll release. The data looks promising:<br><br>... <br><br>Tests on the other S2 test bed which has a large bore exhaust. showed significantly less power. Suggesting that the car has some problem (base timing?) that is preventing the power gains from being realised.<br><br>So I reckon the magnitude of the large bore exhaust effect is up in the air again - its certainly not the only possible reason for a lack of improvement following chipping...[/quote]<br>[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=0#11 date=08/19/04 at 03:50:19]If anyone does get some dyno time I'll send them a ZIF socket and a few chips...[/quote]<br>Alan,<br><br>Andrew is joining me on Tuesday for the dyno tests on the rolling road, so please send us whichever SE & S2 chips you want tested. [smiley=yes.gif]  We have a couple of hours time booked which should be enough for 2 or 3 chips each (ie standard plus 1 or 2). <br><br>Should you have a ZIF socket lying around, could you lend us that too as there's no sign yet of the one I ordered?  :-*   (Don't worry if you don't have one spare - we'll manage.)  We'll send everything back to you at the end (unless there's a special chip we really like of course  ;)).<br><br>I also plan on getting a new exhaust fitted and to repeat the dyno runs afterwards. We can email you the results after Tuesday, but I don't plan to publish any results from my car until I have the full story (ie the new exhaust). <br><br>John  :D<br><br>

[ESM]

Thanks John  :D<br><br>I've sent:<br><br>S2 Stock (straight copy of factory chip)<br>S2 Everest (V3)<br><br>SE Stock<br>SE Kilimanjaro (V3)<br>SE Everest (V3)<br>The SE chips are based on the 9930 PROM.<br><br>An adapter board for Andrew and a ZIF socket. I sent everything to Andrew's work, it went into the post today.<br><br>It happening as the same time as I'm getting my root canal  therapy by the way - so I hope the results are good as I'm likely to be in an even worse mood than normal afterwards [smiley=flaming.gif]<br><br>Alan

[John_W]

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=60#69 date=08/26/04 at 12:18:32]<br>I sent everything to Andrew's work, it went into the post today.<br>It happening as the same time as I'm getting my root canal  therapy by the way - so I hope the results are good as I'm likely to be in an even worse mood than normal afterwards [smiley=flaming.gif]<br> [/quote]<br>Alan,<br>thanks for sending the chips, and for being so thoughtful as to include the standard ones too so that we can change them all quickly. I'll get in touch with Andrew.<br><br>As for the results, we'll send them to you if they're good, and if we don't do it properly we will avoid the wrath of the gods by not telling you.   [smiley=nervous.gif]   [smiley=sconf.gif]   [smiley=scared.gif]   <br><br>John   [smiley=heh_heh.gif] <br><br>PS: hope the root canal works out OK.   [smiley=yikes.gif] [smiley=jason2.gif]  [smiley=grim1.gif]

[Nige]

As I'm the other S2 test bed with a nice new exhaust and showing significantly less power I will be checking base timing this weekend and then running some more log files to see if it's sorted the problem!  <br><br>Nige

[x332race]

Have just fitted Kilimanjaro chip to my otherwise standard car. I do not have acess to Elanscan yet but my first impression is that it makes quite a difference to the performance and driving enjoyment.<br>Boost def comes in quicker and is more sustained leading to better mid range performace. Car feels much quicker overall, especially in mid range.<br>I have not experienced any problems with the car since i installed the chip.

[John_W]

Alan,<br><br>Your package arrived and Andrew & I have shared out the bits. Thanks. We'll be careful which way round we put the chips in  :-*.<br><br>My car's booked in for a new exhaust on Thursday. I'll see if I can book a repeat dyno session for Friday. Hopefully you'll get interesting S2 results on Wednesday and SE results next Friday.<br><br>John  ;)

[davidjt]

Nige<br><br>This is probably a dumb question   ::) (but I have to start somewhere).<br><br>Do the available performance exhaust systems over here start downstream of the pre-cat, or replace it? Interested because  my local expert was pointing the finger specifically at the pre-cat rather than the system as a whole. <br><br>David<br>

[Nige]

David,<br><br>My system (which was custom built) replaces the pre-cat, I've posted pictures in this thread:<br><br>http://www.lotuselancentral.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=exhaust;action=display;num=1089989135;start=15<br><br>On the S2 (and federal cars) the pre cat is functional ie it's full of a ceramic core with a catalyst coating.  I've replaced it completely others have bored a hole all the way through.  On SEs the pre cat is empty (I believe) so an SE does not have the flow restriction caused by the catalyst.  However, the entry hole into the pre cat is about 4" in diameter the exit from it is 2" in diameter to match the standard exhaust.  Most aftermarket exhausts available in the UK bolt onto the pre cat housing and therefore have a 2" diameter at this point regardless of the diameter of the exhaust, this may not necessarily be a bad thing and I understand some people have also ported the pre cat exit.<br><br>Nige

[davidjt]

Nige<br><br>Thanks for the information: I had suspected that a custom exhaust was probably the way to go; not necessarily huge diameter, but to convert the 'step' into a funnel, like yours.<br><br><br>Alan<br><br>I don't know anyone local with a dyno, but so far (with the stock exhaust + pre-cat, and no BOV, as yet) the everest surpasses all expectations: BIG increase in power + torque, especially at low revs, huge grin factor: the only 'problem' I have is changing gear fast enough. <br>The exhaust doesn't seem to be nearly as restrictive as I'd been led to expect; when upgraded slightly, the car is going to fly.<br>In fact, I'd be nuts to take it any further without 4-pot calipers - not even sure that I want to - yet. <br><br>If you do improve the chip for any reason, I'd be more than happy to pay for the time & trouble, not just the component cost. You have one more very satisfied customer. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[philip_sloper]

K2 chip now installed in my SE. There is a performance improvement between 3000 rpm and 6000 rpm; perhaps less than I expected. Correct boost increase shows on the gauge.<br><br>Discussed performance with Roy at Paul Matty, without prompting he suggested that standard exhaust is holding back some of the potential of the chip. Of course he might just be hoping to sell me one of their sports exhausts...<br><br>Getting some hesitation from 6000 rpm to the red line. Alan suggests poor spark, caused by plugs, HT leads or timing. My guess is HT leads as plugs replaced only 2000 miles ago & timing was checked at same time..

[Kuching]

My Everest chip is now installed and running. The instructions were clear and precise so fitting was very easy.<br><br>The engine ran perfectly from the start, idles evenly and picks up even more smoothly than it did before. I have found no problems with boost creep despite running a PM large bore exhaust.<br><br>My concerns that Everest might be too agressive were entirely unfounded as the car is now more tractable than it was with the MBC/FCD and I now see no reason to go for the girlie options.<br><br>However, I was a teeny bit disappointed with the power output as the performance now seems slightly less than with the MBC setup. Could it be that I was simply running too much boost before and it is now at a more reasonable level or might there be another reason for the power drop off, or maybe I am just a power hungry performance junkie and should get some therapy.<br><br>Either way, Alan, what you have achieved is fantastic and I take my hat off to you. [smiley=thumb.gif]

[F1 LOTUS]

Could it just be that the power is coming in sooner but more smoothly and not as aggressive therefore feels slower?<br>Either way you need therapy!  :-*