ESM Chips - Performance & discussion

[grahamec]

I know this is the wrong area for this question but it is a little topical so, all you guys and girls who set thier own timing, what is the best timing light/strobe etc to buy ? <br>Thanks

[John_W]

Grahame,<br><br>I'm in the market also, so am interested in the answer to your question. <br><br>We need one with nice long leads which can go all the way from plug no 1 over the front wing, into the wheelarrch, and up to let you see the timing marks (the one on the pulley is a right bar steward to find by the way).<br><br>The one I bought for my mini in 1973 is not long enough so I need to buy a new one (or keep borrowing Andrew's identical one with longer leads). It is of the type which fits in series with the HT lead to no 1 cylinder and flashes red such that you can see it only in a dark place - but it works. I would expect to pay less than a tenner for a similar one today. <br><br>The only one I could find in Halfords is the type you connect to the battery for its power and the plug lead for timing - it claims to be so bright you can use it in daylight. However they wanted £38 and I had no idea if that type would work on the Elan, so I chose the cheaper route of borrowing Andrew's.<br><br>John  :D

[grahamec]

Hi John<br>If I find a suitable one I'll let you know<br>Grahame

[Nige]

My timing light is a Gunsons thing I've had for 20 years or so and looks like some kind of death ray from the original Star Trek!  However it certainly works.  It draws power from the battery and has an inductive pick up that slips over the No1 plug lead it has a dial up advance setting on which I didn't use this time but have on previous cars where the timing mark on the pulley corrsponds with TDC. It works just fine on my Elan (following the direction on the main site).  It has a bright white light and although the wheel arch is a pretty dark and dismal place I was able to set the timing outdoors on a sunny day with it.  I seem to recall it wasn't cheap but as it worked perfectly first time out after a good few years its paid for itself by now.  Looking in the Holden catalogue they list a Gunson  equivalent at £42 (Timestrobe Inductive RPM) and a cheaper version at £27 (Xenontime DC).  Only thing to note is that the wasted spark ignition systm on our cars will cause 2 flashes of the stobe for every revolution.<br><br>Nige

[grahamec]

Thanks Nige, I'll hunt them out.

[ESM]

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=90#93 date=09/01/04 at 15:05:56] It is an impressive power gain for a small adjustment<br><br>The peak power looks more like 160-170 than 180bhp based on this data. Maybe the log I looked at had a downhill blast in it, either that or you weren't trying hard enough this time <br><br>[/quote]<br><br>It is the same data I looked at - can't have had my glasses on! [smiley=duh.gif]

[Doug]

Just want to add my 2 cents worth:  [smiley=soapbox.gif]<br><br>Again, big hug for Alan for being "The Man"   [smiley=clap.gif]   [smiley=clap.gif]   [smiley=clap.gif]   [smiley=clap.gif]<br><br>I got my Everest chip in (piece of cake only cause I have been to the ECU before) easy and the install is nothing to worry about.<br><br>Car started up fine, but I got a CEL (code 32) showing EGR problem.  Troubleshot that and I guess it was corrosion in the EGR elecrrical connectors  :-/  as all is well now.<br><br>The car now boosts with a ballistic fun gauge needle (SCHWING !! ).  Sure is cool to see that amount of boost on the normal factory set-up.<br><br>Anyway, boost run ElanScan logs to be sent to Alan and John for graphing and interpretation, but I can already tell you the car holds full boost well and doesn't hit the boost cut, which is great.  Having the knock sensor active in this situation is great as well.  Already I can "see" and "feel" that the build-up of boost is slower than with the MBC.  This makes intuitive sense as the MBC boost egress hole is full sized all the time so the boost spikes up real quick, while with the BSV, the duty cycle is slower to open that hole . . . <br><br>With my exhaust set-up I still get near instant boost up to about 0.5 or 0.6 bar, but then you can see on the gauge and feel the boost rising rather linearly thereafter to the max ( = BSV functioning per chip).<br><br>What a kick, and for those "boost virgins" out there, you now have the ability to have more endless smiles and come to learn the addiction of boost  [smiley=burnout.gif]

[F1 LOTUS]

I've had my 'original' Everest fitted for a week or so now to my bog stock car and sure enough my boost gauge whips round to 1bar and stays there...but Elanscan never shows more than about .8 Bar? Acceleration feels about the same as before until stock boost is exceeded where the acceleration is now sustained to the redline. Elanscan's power calc's suggest that my car is well down on power as I'm never seeing more than 120HP?<br>At the moment it feels like I'd like max boost to kick-in much sooner, apparently several other 'chippees' feel the same? Also I find FWOT to be an uncomfortable stretch???<br>Next I intend to gut the PreCat and see what this does for the car.

[ESM]

The boost gauge isn't that trustworthy, ElanScan will give a more reliable value if you have access to it.

[Monty]

<br>Paul (dico) has just got his self a laptop (actually his wife got it  :P), so just need to buy the leads etc, But on Alan Whittaker site they`ve sold out of the 10-pin ALDL connector <br><br>I`ll just make do with the gauge as it is at the mo  ;D

[grahamec]

Monty<br>If you like I will bring my interface and leads to the lakes, you might get a chance to do a couple of runs that is if Paul brings his laptop.

[Monty]

Thanks for the offer grahame, but paul only just got his laptop last week and hasn`t a clue how to open it. He thinks it`s a fruit machine.  ::)<br>We`ll leave it for another time, so we can all just get  [smiley=all_coholic.gif]  ;D

[Doug]

Here's an overlay of 30-70MPH full throttle runs, first with old MBC set-up, and next with Everest chip. (the runs were not done exactly to 70MPH and then off throttle, so the fact that the times correspond exactly is coincidence)<br><br>Yes, I could have adjusted the MBC for a bit more boost.  The run was done on a warm (80F) morning, and the boost is a bit lower because of atmospheric conditions.  One good thing about the Everest chip control is that atmospheric conditions are adjusted for by the computer!<br><br>The shaded area shows how the MBC boost comes on a bit quicker.  This confirms the butt dyno feeling of this!<br><br>

[Doug]

A/F ratio of above runs:<br><br>

[Doug]

Wastegate Duty Cycle of above runs:<br><br>

[ESM]

[quote author=AV8NDOC link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=105#113 date=09/11/04 at 01:30:35]Here's an overlay of 30-70MPH full throttle runs, first with old MBC set-up, and next with Everest chip. (the runs were not done exactly to 70MPH and then off throttle, so the fact that the times correspond exactly is coincidence)<br><br>Yes, I could have adjusted the MBC for a bit more boost.  The run was done on a warm (80F) morning, and the boost is a bit lower because of atmospheric conditions.  One good thing about the Everest chip control is that atmospheric conditions are adjusted for by the computer!<br><br>The shaded area shows how the MBC boost comes on a bit quicker.  This confirms the butt dyno feeling of this!<br>[/quote]<br><br>I'm very happy with the data here. The Everest is following the boost targets I programmed very well. The trouble with these single gear 0-60 and 30-70 runs is that they are kind of artifical. Its a small turbo engine with a close ratio box, its meant to be revved - its not a 5 litre V8 you can drive in one gear! The boost target of the Everest is set to 0.66bar at 2000RPM because in general if you really want to move you'll downshift. One of the advantages of the chip approach is that you get reasonably standard behaviour (low engine stress/ ok fuel consumption) at low RPM/throttle but enhanced performance under more demand. At the moment it gives around 0.9bar from 3600RPM with WOT which is the kind of base engine speed, I felt, would be used when overtaking or driving fast. I could set it to go for 0.9bar at 2000RPM if that's really what you want.   <br>

[Doug]

[quote author=ElanScanMan link=board=upgrades;num=1092641209;start=105#116 date=09/11/04 at 10:05:31]I could set it to go for 0.9bar at 2000RPM if that's really what you want.   <br>[/quote]<br> ::)<br><br>I doubt we could get near that at low RPM, but if there's a way to help the front slope of the curve without spiking too high and overboosting, that's what interests me.<br><br>I'll try to do some RPM vs. boost graphs if I can figure t out--otherwise I'll have someone smart like you or John do it.<br><br>

[ESM]

I didn't say it could reach 0.9bar at 2000RPM I just said I could set it as a target  ::) I'm afraid the slope is pretty much determined by the turbo efficiency, you might get it slightly quicker by getting a really high BSV duty cycle quickly but it might well overshoot.

[Doug]

Well, I think it's up to you, Master, to see if you can allow greater duty cycle up front and still catch it in time to not overboost!  Sounds like a fun challenge   ::)    :-*<br><br><br>Oh yeah, doesn't look like ElanScan can graph RPM vs. Boost on its own, so you or John will have to do some Excel magic . . .

[Doug]

Similar to above, but this is MBC vs. stock setting (exhaust allowing more boost inherently and with some creep) on a full throttle 30-70 dash<br><br><br><br>and corresponding wastegate duty cycles on same runs:<br><br>