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Postby popeckia » Wed 12.10.2005, 09:41

Well, that's definitely good to hear. One of you making such a claim I would be suspicious, but the pair of you.... I'm sold :)

So, now I just need to get a couple of tickets for Stoneleigh...
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Postby Stef » Wed 12.10.2005, 10:33

Me Like! Me Want! :bowdown:

I have no worries in you using pics of Blipi and would LOVE to see one made of Elan pics! :cheers:
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Postby Nige » Wed 12.10.2005, 16:14

Happy to put some publicity about this on the LEC stand at Stoneleigh, perhaps with a copy of the Rita composition as an example of what the end product would look like, to encourage interest and also to facilitate people permitting photographs or providing photographs.

Taking that to the next stage I would have though that if you asked here for people to provide their M100 photos and permission to use them in a composite image, along with those you take you would be able to generate enough images to produce an exclusively M100 composite. The 'Where's Wally' element would then be trying to find our own cars!
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Postby popeckia » Wed 12.10.2005, 16:26

That sounds great, I could bring along a nice printout of one to use as an example I guess.

I'll try to get enough photos on the day (and it takes a LOT of photos) but it would be easy to allow people to add appropriate images of their own to the set as long as they were happy to effectively sacrifice any rights to those images - as I would be selling these to people to cover the costs of printing them. Might be the sort of thing that needs a little legal-speak ...
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Postby Fubar1764 » Wed 12.10.2005, 16:49

If they put their cars up for public display, they don't have a legal right to say, "No way man, no piccies!" If they locked their cars up in an enclosed area and you snapped a pic while visiting, they'd have a case of trespass.
Getting everyone to sign a waiver is just a way to make sure you don't get into informal trouble, not a legal prophylactic. It's a nice simple thing which says, "Hey mate, I'm gonna use the picture of your car, ok?" If anyone "owns" the image, it would be Lotus. But wait, Lotus sold you the car, so there's an implied license that they gave the buyer and the rest of the public.
Anyways, I wouldn't worry about the legal implications of your project as I don't see any. Not that you can't be sued, just that they won't prevail.
Finally, it's sad that a fun and happy project like this must go through a legal sieve. More reason to hate lawyers and their clients looking for a free ride in life. I'm happy to whip up a waiver to you which will bring a smile to anyone to reads it before signing.
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Postby popeckia » Wed 12.10.2005, 16:58

That was pretty much my reading of the situation, legally if the cars are out in the open, and I am taking the pictures then I own the pictures and the subject of them doesn't really get a look in (hence paparazzi success). However, that ignores the fact that I don't wish to offend anyone there as this is a community... but I'm hopeful and confident that won't happen.

People providing their own images is slightly different because they took them (they may or may not own the subject of them) and hence they own them. If they are happy for them to be used, great... but I guess I'm a little more uneasy about it than taking them myself. e.g. if someone uploads an image belonging to someone else, and that someone else complains after the print run then I might have to scrap all posters containing that image. Unlikely, but who wants the aggrovation?

As for lawyers.... well, I wouldn't like to comment :) It's the litigious member of public that bother me more, lawyers are merely a tool for them.
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Postby Fubar1764 » Wed 12.10.2005, 17:07

THANK YOU!!! Behind every lawyer you hate is a c*m-gargling client more deserving of vitriol.
**looks down**
Oops. Soapbox. I should be in the Drunken Rage thread. . .
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Postby Fubar1764 » Wed 12.10.2005, 17:35

Doug wrote:
popeckia wrote:Jack seems crazy enough to find it.

You can't prove that!:evil:
(psst. . .starting from the bottom right, 11 left, 20 up)
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Postby Doug » Wed 12.10.2005, 22:27

Fubar1764 wrote:You can't prove that!:evil:
(psst. . .starting from the bottom right, 11 left, 20 up)


don'y you mean the red car 14 left and 20 up ??
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Postby Fubar1764 » Wed 12.10.2005, 23:51

That's not very nice jacking with the retard! :evil:
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Wed 12.10.2005, 23:52

YOU SUNK MY BATTLE SHIP! :P
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Thu 13.10.2005, 06:42

popeckia wrote:That sounds great, I could bring along a nice printout of one to use as an example I guess.

I'll try to get enough photos on the day (and it takes a LOT of photos) but it would be easy to allow people to add appropriate images of their own to the set as long as they were happy to effectively sacrifice any rights to those images - as I would be selling these to people to cover the costs of printing them. Might be the sort of thing that needs a little legal-speak ...


I have a large format (42" roll width) inkjet printer that can produce photoquality prints, I'd be happy to print something for Stoneleigh if the logistics make sense? :)
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Postby popeckia » Thu 13.10.2005, 10:20

Wow, that is a big inkjet!

What do you think the cost would be in raw materials for a print about 63" x 42"? I was under the impression that the ink alone would cost a fortune.
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Postby F1 LOTUS » Thu 13.10.2005, 17:35

popeckia wrote:Wow, that is a big inkjet!

What do you think the cost would be in raw materials for a print about 63" x 42"? I was under the impression that the ink alone would cost a fortune.


The roll paper is around $50-$100 42" x 100 feet depending on finish and quality etc. The cartridges runaround $30-$40 each and the plotter uses 4.
To print a 63" x 42" (slightly less actually) I can do FOC for LEC! It's difficult to judge how many posters you'd get / cartridge as they deplete unevenly :?
If you think this might work we need to see what size file I'm able to download unless there's time to slip me a disc in the mail? :)
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Postby John_W » Thu 13.10.2005, 21:29

Popeckia,

Can you send me the file? What file format is it? PC or Unix? No promises but I might be able to do an inkjet print on 42" paper for Stoneleigh and send it to you (rolled). When do you need it by?

I'll pm you my email and address. I have broadband but if it's over about 4Mb, best to put a CD in the post. If Brian and I both manage it you'll have two.

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Postby popeckia » Thu 13.10.2005, 22:50

Thanks very much to both of you for your offers of printing up the image. For the time being, I'm going to decline the offer though. Really, this is down to the content of the image. I don't really feel comfortable displaying the image at Stoneleigh when it is made up of images that I don't have any right to use. There are also lots of tweaks that can be done on the generation process, the target image and various other bits and pieces to hopefully produce a much better overall effect.

However, when I have produced the improved version using only Lotus cars then I would be much more interested to see a full size example! :)

If enough people are interested in the Lotus only version, then I would pay to get a load printed at one time which would bring the costs down a lot compared to inkjet. I figure hopefully I can sell any left over ones (which will probably be the vast majority) to other (non Elan) Lotus owners. I'm planning to produce images for a number of events, not car related, and sell them direct through a website but this would be the first, so my hope is that I can come close to covering costs, provide everyone with posters they hopefully like, and learn a lot in the process (like the logistics of sending out lots of big posters)!

Now, to get the not insignificant legal difficulties out of the way first...
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Postby delta » Sun 16.10.2005, 19:57

This is an amasing image and a great idea, and I just can't wait to se the "All Lotus" pic, and will at least take 2 posters. :!:

However, unfortunally not all of us can come to Stoneleigh and will therefore miss-out on the pic. To overcome this, will it be possible to send you some pic's of my Elan's for you to include in the pic. :?:

You will ofcorse be given all rights to use these originals as you please. 8)

I know it's a sik idea, but I also love playing "Find Holger" which is he's name in Denmark. :wink:
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Postby John_W » Sun 16.10.2005, 21:02

delta wrote:I know it's a sik idea, but I also love playing "Find Holger" which is he's name in Denmark. :wink:

Holger Danske???
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Postby delta » Sun 16.10.2005, 23:27

John_W wrote:Holger Danske???

No - no, ofcourse not. Everybody knows where he is. :wink:
Don't they...... :?:
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Postby popeckia » Wed 19.10.2005, 19:42

Assuming I can knock together some sort of simple disclaimer that people can accept that says their images will be used in the overall image, and that they must own the copyright to any images they upload - then I'll definitely do this. To be honest, it takes a LOT of photos, and only me and the missus will be taking shots at Stoneleigh and we'll probably come up short!
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