wheels

[wee p]

can u tell me wich 17"wheels will fit a s1 elan

[Sy V]

Any 4 stud 100mm PCD with 60mm offset.

Problem is finding some.

Certain schools of thought allow +/- 20% from the 60mm which gives you 48-72mm to aim at.

I'd prefer to stay on the button as any variance (in my experience) has a detrimental effect on handling.

[Enright]

I'd prefer to stay on the button as any variance (in my experience) has a detrimental effect on handling.

...AND is often a matter of taste (or lack of)!

Anyone for a back-to-front Burberry baseball cap?

[stevo]

http://lotuselancentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4712

read this.

[DAdragna]

Stevo,

I was reading your info on aftermarket wheels for the M100 and was wondering... if the hub bore in the wheels is an issue of concern as well?
I know on the Esprits that when you put the newer Esprit wheels on the older cars the hub bore has to be increased. Also, I have found a set of wheels that I think would look nice on a M100 but they are 42 for offset.
Would the wheel be sitting too far inside the wheel wells with a 42? Are there wheel spacers available for the Elan? Thanks for any help.

Dan Adragna

[F1 LOTUS]

Stevo,

I was reading your info on aftermarket wheels for the M100 and was wondering... if the hub bore in the wheels is an issue of concern as well?
I know on the Esprits that when you put the newer Esprit wheels on the older cars the hub bore has to be increased. Also, I have found a set of wheels that I think would look nice on a M100 but they are 42 for offset.
Would the wheel be sitting too far inside the wheel wells with a 42? Are there wheel spacers available for the Elan? Thanks for any help.

Dan Adragna

With less 'offset' the track width will actually increase, and with spacers more so?

[DAdragna]

Oops! I had it backwards! Thanks for the correction.

Dan A

[DAdragna]

Brian,

What about the hub bore? Should it be of concern, or is it typically the same from one 4 bolt 4x100 wheel to the next?

Dan

[stevo]

they vairy from different manufacturereresesessss. a good wheel shop has all the shims needed for a good fit.

[Houdini]

Team Dynamics makes the Pro Race 1 and 2 in a 17x7 inch up to 50mm offset. When ordered they machine the wheel to the correct offset and hub bore so no spacers/rings are required.

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/pro-race/Pro-race1hpsilver.htm

or

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/pro-race/Pro-Race-2silver.htm

This is a very popular and inexpensive (not cheap) wheel that works quite well. Maybe you won't like the look though.

They are available in the USA as well, just check there site.

[Nige]

It's my understanding that the 17" wheels fitted to the BMW Mini Cooper are a 4 stud 100mm PCD (In fact I know they are because I measured one in the car park) and the wheels have a 50mm offset (which I didn't measure). On that basis I was wondering about a set of the minilite style wheels (as per the Cooper S) on an Elan, plenty on e bay at the moment. Anyone else thought about this and have anything to add?

[Dovey]

I got +40 offset 17's, not only do they look cool filling the arches but you get a wider track. Am I alone in thinking a wider track is better?
Also, I don't see anything wrong with changing the wheels and suspension from stock. People bang on about originality and lotus handling. But then why does the s2 have different alloys if the s1 alloys were so great? Lotus handling is great but there is always room for improvement

[Monty]

I got +40 offset 17's, not only do they look cool filling the arches but you get a wider track. Am I alone in thinking a wider track is better?
Also, I don't see anything wrong with changing the wheels and suspension from stock. People bang on about originality and lotus handling. But then why does the s2 have different alloys if the s1 alloys were so great? Lotus handling is great but there is always room for improvement

changing the offset does not fill the arch more.
If u change suspension it needs to be set up correctly or u will upset the handling and if u can get the offset closer to +60 the better. S2 wheels have the same offset as the SE. No such thing as S1 on a M100!

Lotus is about the handling

[Nige]

Lotus handling is great but there is always room for improvement

That may be true, but not for mere mortals. I don't need telling the answer to the question who knows more about suspension, Lotus or me?

The difference in ride and handling between my NA which is an early car and my S2 which is as almost as late as they come is very noticeable. They are both superb but the S2 corners flatter and inspires more confidence on first aquaintance. The 16" wheeled S2 has lower profile tyres than an NA or SE and as I understand it springs, dampers and most if not all suspension bushes were changed to maintain the ride and handling balance, in part because of the change in unsprung weight and the different tyres.

I'm still very wary of fitting stiffer springs and adjustable dampers, more to adjust means more to get wrong.

I was considering the BMW Mini rims solely for fitting track day tyres, not for road use.

[Dovey]

in my humble opinion with a smaller 40mm offset the wheels sit further away from the hub and in line with the flaired arches thus 'filling the arches'
s2 wheels are the same offset but the alloy size and weight, tyre size and the suspension is different (cheers nige) thus affecting the handling. surely this is an admission by lotus that the setup can be changed without the car handling like a tesco trolley
how do you get an s2 without an s1 first?
i work with a bloke who built elans at hethel so I have heard stories about lotus and the elan which are shocking. I dare bet a fiver lotus is not perfect and niether are their cars
and finally i know nothin about mini alloys soz

[Nige]

I still have concerns about a reduced offset because as has been said that pushes the wheels out and effectively increases the track, whether it fills the arches more is subjective but I know what you mean. My concern about the wider trackis that you are first of all increasing the leverage and therefore force on all other suspension components, to do a proper job you need to understand and calculate the increase in forces and make appropriate other changes to compensate. Also the suspension geometry is designed to keep the maximum contact patch under as wide a range of suspension movement as possible if you change lever lengths then you might get a perception under the mid range of conditions that the car was better but at the limits, the loss of grip as the contact patch reduced because of changes in wheel angle might well provoke snap reactions that are difficult to control. The handling of an Elan can certainly be changed but like all road cars it's a compromise, you can move it towards a track set up at the expense of comfort and ride quality, your car your choice.

Monty is right there never was an Elan S1, in the beginning there was Elan (NA) Elan SE (Turbo) and then came S2. I suppose when they were building the Elans and SEs they didn't know there was going to be an S2 so there was no need to call the first car an S1.

I've had a Lotus since 1984 and I do know they're less than perfect (Value Engineering ), it's part of the charm! After all it does stand for Lots of Trouble Usually Serious!

[Dovey]

Spot on nige. With wider track I have been watching wheel bearings and tyre wear mainly. Had no problems yet. However too much negative camber is a worry and therefore size of the contact patch. Definately need a geo check. Also the tyres are 205's all round rather than 215's on the back so I'm losing contact there too but compensation comes from wider track, stiffer springs and lower centre of gravity. It will trap nerves in your spine basically and I wouldnt use it everyday, country roads and speed humps are awful in it, my girlfriend moans constantly about the ride now and it costs loads to do. But its great.

[Monty]

205`s are standard on the rear

[RatHead]

Call me old fashioned if you like - but its a lot less complicated by the sounds of it if you keep the standard wheels on the car. You can have them totally refurbished so they look like new for a mere £160.

[F1 LOTUS]

I think Lotus' intention with the front steering geometry was to put the steering axis close to the centre of the tyres contact patch, all part of the effort to reduce front wheel drive torque steer and kick-back etc? Reducing the wheel offset will tend to move the contact patch outboard of the steering axis...

To get some understanding of the effect of this it helps to exagerate the offset...with the steering axis in the centre of the contact patch the wheel would turn in the same way that a coin spins on edge
With the steering axis offset from the tyre contact patch, the wheel will sweep in an arc fore and aft similar to a soapbox axle that has a single bolt in the middle of the cart

If you now consider the outside effects on the tyre from the road, you can probably visualise how this might be felt back through the steering wheel?
Also, as the car is cornered harder the tyres' contact patch will move further outboard towards the sidewall and exert greater leverage back through the steering (heavier).

Obviously the above is a simplified explanation of perhaps just one of the effects, another effect of changing offset is that the car will move vertically as the wheel is turned ...

Suspension geometry is pretty complex and Lotus Engineering are recognised as being a leading authority on the subject, which is why most of the worlds car manufacturers call upon their expertise